RE: 653N Mod (Full Version)

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gwgardner -> RE: 653N Mod (9/30/2017 3:55:33 PM)

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[image]local://upfiles/20372/E0F544838A9C44488C6FEC7B48C354DC.jpg[/image]



gwgardner -> RE: 653N Mod (9/30/2017 3:55:56 PM)

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[image]local://upfiles/20372/D0880F32EACC4E3A806C4EABAC018CE1.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653N Mod (9/30/2017 4:01:01 PM)

That screenshot shows how the computer likes to pile up Air Units at the front line. I have seen this enough that I wonder if Hubert can or should do something about it.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653N Mod (10/1/2017 8:34:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
1. Good idea. When I have played the Allies, the U-Boat menace has not scared me either. I think I had it based on the overall percentages during the war, so I'll try to think of a better way.

I want to go back to #1 from Post #27 now that I have had some time to review the situation. Currently the numbers for these convoy raids are based on averages over the course of the war. I knew this wasn't optimal, but maybe it was the best I could do. Now I am thinking that the percentage chance for a convoy to be raided should be 90-95%, and as the war progresses the player can be responsible for reducing the chance by using the Maritime Bombers.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653N Mod (10/1/2017 9:14:39 AM)

quote:

5) I haven't figured out why my subs cannot fire on the enemy subs ...

Sub vs. Sub Combat Values are ghosted out in the editor, and as far as I've seen subs cannot attack subs [although historically they did at times]. Keep an eye on this to see if you are certain that the computer is doing this.
Also, maybe Hubert can change the Sub-Sub Attack Properties from 2 to zero, to avoid confusion.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653N Mod (10/1/2017 9:20:33 AM)

quote:

6] The Mers-el-Kebir event seems a no-brainer to say 'no'


There is an effect, in the DE 118 notes it explains:
If you say (NO) then should Vichy Algeria join the Axis, or be conquered by the Axis, then Germany will gain a strength 5 Coast Gun at Casablanca, and a full strength Coast Gun at Algiers. [:)]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653N Mod (10/1/2017 9:31:16 AM)

7] I didn't modify any of those scripts [I think!] so I will push this one off on Bill !
I did modify the units that the USSR gets when they enter the war, and one thing I did have some trouble with was getting the 'Fortified Regions' to show up at appropriate places depending on which options were taken. The border DE's in that area are a tangled web. As of my last tests they were all arriving as expected, near Lwow, Bialystok and Lithuania. Since you are being so helpful, you can also keep an eye out for those arrivals if you like !
Thanks.



gwgardner -> RE: 653N Mod (10/1/2017 2:03:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

7] I didn't modify any of those scripts [I think!] so I will push this one off on Bill !
I did modify the units that the USSR gets when they enter the war, and one thing I did have some trouble with was getting the 'Fortified Regions' to show up at appropriate places depending on which options were taken. The border DE's in that area are a tangled web. As of my last tests they were all arriving as expected, near Lwow, Bialystok and Lithuania. Since you are being so helpful, you can also keep an eye out for those arrivals if you like !
Thanks.


Those Fortified Regions showed up at Polotsk, Grodno, and Lvov, as shown in the screenshot. This is after I had moved one away from Grodno. I guess to be true to the intent, I should treat those FRs as static.


[image]local://upfiles/20372/78170FA8FFB540489211737A18C7BFC7.jpg[/image]



gwgardner -> RE: 653N Mod (10/1/2017 2:07:56 PM)

1) Another thing I'm trying to figure out, my level 0 maritime bombers cannot attack subs. I've had opportunity perhaps 10 times to do so, but the system won't allow it. I should have rushed research to get them leveled up, so will see soon what happens when I get them to level 1.

2) In this instance, the AXIS AI has been VERY hesitant. It did not attack until after the Soviets joined the Allies on 7/15, and even after they were at war, the Germans have done little more than probing attacks, rather than a full advance. I'm sure that has nothing to do with your mod, but the base game AI, no? I'll play it out a bit, but if the German AI remains desultory, I will go back to about April '41 and try again to see if the AI is more aggressive.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653N Mod (10/1/2017 3:23:10 PM)

It looks like the Fortified Regions arrived as intended, excellent! It would be more accurate if they were immobile, but units can only arrive at or adjacent to a Resource, and locations can vary from game to game. They should all be gone by turn 2, so its not much of an issue.

quote:

my level 0 maritime bombers cannot attack subs.

Well, I cheated and set up all the Convoy Locations outside of the initial
Maritime Bomber Range. This hopefully mirrors the Allies inability to stop the subs at the beginning of the war [and, gives the player another pressure choice - Maritime Bomber upgrade or something else].
quote:


the AXIS AI has been VERY hesitant

I hope I didn't screw something up! Actually, that should be on the base game as I haven't messed with that [to my knowledge]. I also don't recall seeing that type of behavior in any of my games, so I'm not sure why it is doing that.



gwgardner -> RE: 653N Mod (10/1/2017 3:31:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:


the AXIS AI has been VERY hesitant

I hope I didn't screw something up! Actually, that should be on the base game as I haven't messed with that [to my knowledge]. I also don't recall seeing that type of behavior in any of my games, so I'm not sure why it is doing that.


Since the Russkies refused the adjustment to Molotov/Ribbontrop, they held all of east Poland, up to Warsaw. I wonder if that extension of Russian held territory messed with the AI's standard Barbarossa plans. Since late July the German AI has been more aggressive, but seems to hold it's armor back. There have been no armored breakthroughs, just steady movement forward.



gwgardner -> RE: 653N Mod (10/1/2017 3:34:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653


quote:

my level 0 maritime bombers cannot attack subs.

Well, I cheated and set up all the Convoy Locations outside of the initial
Maritime Bomber Range. This hopefully mirrors the Allies inability to stop the subs at the beginning of the war [and, gives the player another pressure choice - Maritime Bomber upgrade or something else].



Actually my maritime bombers, with a range of 6, have been able to target the subs, but the system simply does not allow the attack. Perhaps it's supply reductions, due to the positioning of the bombers.



gwgardner -> RE: 653N Mod (10/5/2017 4:27:09 PM)

It's now May '42 in my 653N game. Got the Guards units from Siberia, and the US provided a strength 6 maritime bomber from the 'US provides escort carriers' event.

Since it started Barbarossa so late, the German AI did not advance historically, still 2-300 miles behind historical lines by the end of '41. It did suffer a severe winter effect in '41.

So far I think the 653 OOB is just right balance-wise. Will have a better idea as time progresses of course.

I did confirm that it required ASW research level of 1 before the maritime units could actually attack the German subs.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653N Mod (10/5/2017 5:11:42 PM)

quote:

I did confirm that it required ASW research level of 1 before the maritime units could actually attack the German subs.

I don't know why that is. I've had three full play throughs as the Allies and haven't noticed it. I'll pay more attention next time thru [:)]



reef75 -> RE: 653N Mod (10/6/2017 3:26:38 PM)

I've been on the fence a long time with this game but finally decided to get it. Mostly this due to your mod as it looks a better rendition of the conflict. However I just noticed I have a different game version number than what your saying the mod is for probably due to my copy being from Steam. Will this mean its incompatible ? Thanks for any help..

steve



gwgardner -> RE: 653N Mod (10/6/2017 3:32:02 PM)

I play with the Steam version of the game, along with the 653N mod.



reef75 -> RE: 653N Mod (10/6/2017 5:11:52 PM)

Thanks for letting me know. Does it not throw up balance problems with it being a different version ? Also sorry to be a pest, but is it ok to play this mod with a map mod also ? Thanks again..

steve



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653N Mod (10/6/2017 9:10:55 PM)

I don't even know what Steam is, so I'm afraid I cannot answer any questions about it.
As far as the map mod, if you tell me what it is I might be able to answer.



reef75 -> RE: 653N Mod (10/6/2017 9:32:26 PM)

Steam is the biggest online games market used by a good few millions. Its usually slower to get the latest patches but does so automatically. However that leaves many players on 1.08 at the moment which is why I asked if it would effect balances in your mod. It was a link by the Devs on the games Steam news about a mod AAR that brought me here. The map mod is the board game map mod by Welk. Sorry to bother you with all this.



gwgardner -> RE: 653N Mod (10/6/2017 10:04:57 PM)

I was using Welk's map mod too, but then realized that the 653N map must be used due to the naval changes, eg the convoy target hexes. Similarly one has to use the 653N counters.

I play the version 1.8 on Steam, and have had no problem that I can identify. I could find no definitive explanation of what changed with regard to balance, with 1.9.

On another note, my choice not to carry out the Mers-el-Kebir attack came back to haunt me, for when I landed US troops near Casablanca the French navy, in the form of the coastal guns, were there to deny me.



reef75 -> RE: 653N Mod (10/7/2017 7:19:56 AM)

Looks like I am good to go then :) Thanks for all your help.

steve



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653N Mod (10/7/2017 8:29:52 AM)

Thanks guys, I'll put a note in Post #1 about not using other mods with this one.

As Steam is behind the current version, I suppose that it presents no problems [note that the current posted version of 653N is for v.1.09.06 of SC3]. Generally, due to the time that is involved in releasing new 653N versions, they will be behind the latest official SC3 version [generally].



gwgardner -> RE: 653N Mod (10/8/2017 4:18:05 PM)

The Axis AI is hitting me hard in the sea game. I've learned that the Allies need to really push ASW research as fast as possible. It's mid 1942 and subs are hitting my convoys generally 15 MPPs a turn, and were able to destroy one transport fleet from the UK around the Horn.

Similarly, the USSR cannot devote an inordinate amount to research early on. Idid that, and now the AXIS AI is knocking on the doors of both Leningrad and Moscow, and have a pretty much free hand south and east of Rostov. Loss of Stalingrad is definitely possible. I'm refitting destroyed infantry corps as fast as possible, and pusing them back in the line, but it's going to come down to the wire IF I can stop the AXIS.

To tell you the truth, this is the first time I've played to and through 1942, where the issue was in doubt. Of course I have almost always played the AXIS before.




sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653N Mod (10/10/2017 2:22:04 AM)

quote:

this is the first time I've played to and through 1942, where the issue was in doubt.

Hubert's Axis 'AI' definitely scares me in Russia when I play as the Allies. Note that because most Soviet tanks are represented in their Infantry Upgrade, you do need to keep that Research Category going. Command and Control is the second Research Category that I focus on for the USSR, because that increases your HQ movement [the USSR HQ units start with only 1 MP].
Also, maybe you know this, but newly created units are placed on the map at 50% Morale and Readiness, which makes them vulnerable. I always place the USSR Corps where they won't be needed [hopefully] when they arrive, so that on the next turn they are up to around 75%.
Still, wherever the Panzers are, you can expect trouble. Hubert has made it so that this can differ from game to game [the area of main effort] [:)]



gwgardner -> RE: 653N Mod (10/11/2017 11:12:15 PM)

Anything in the mod hindering the start of US lend-lease to the USSR? I got the warning from the US that I could not approach certain areas of Finland, and did not go near them. It's late '43 and no lend-lease yet.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653N Mod (10/11/2017 11:59:33 PM)

Thanks again, I need to add a note about this to keep it clear. You've got two actual convoy lines on the map, one from USA to UK [represented on Lake Ontario] and the other from the UK to USSR [represented in the Gulf of Oman, far bottom right of map]. These should both be showing in those end-of-turn MPP reports.



gwgardner -> RE: 653N Mod (10/12/2017 2:33:19 PM)

Have never seen either of those mentioned on an end of turn report. Should I be looking for the words lendlease or simply an MPP transfer? Or the convoy name.

I see MPPs sent by the UK to Russia and US to UK.




gwgardner -> RE: 653N Mod (10/12/2017 2:45:39 PM)

A suggestion/request for the 653 mod: can you do something about the uselessness of strategic bombing? The Allies have a heavy investment in them for research and production, but when they are used, they do little damage and take huge losses. I know this is a base game problem, not the mod, but perhaps you can improve on things.

I currently have 7 strat bombers based in the UK which cost perhaps 2000 MPPs, at level 2 (cost about 350 MPPs), and for example on the last turn they did altogether 8 damage points and took about 8 strength point losses. To repair those losses is going to cost something like 8x17 MPPs, which is far greater than the accumulated damage to the AXIS.

Without some mod to strat bombing I'm guessing most players won't invest in them.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: 653N Mod v1.3 (10/13/2017 1:57:29 AM)

So if I read Post #57 right, the convoys are ok ? [I haven't played as the Allies in a few months so I can't remember but I feel that things were working as designed. I just finished a game as the Axis, and will soon start a new game as the Allies, and I will verify the convoys].

The Strategic Bombers - I agree with you but I have some more experience with the game so I can offer some insight. I've found that the US/UK Strats are very valuable in North Africa, the Mid-East and Italy when pushing back the Axis. As you observed, not much damage is done in NE Europe during 41-43. This may be due to Allied Upgrade Levels vs. Axis AA Levels, plus Allied Escorts vs. Axis Interceptors, but I'm not sure. However, I have found that once the Allies have footholds in Europe and Northern Italy, the Allied Strats cause havoc to the Axis.
So in NE Europe/UK from 41-43 I don't do much with Strats, but when it is time for D-Day I use them to hit the supply and rail resources, which can really hurt the Germans. This also causes the German Escorts to take heavy losses [the German fighters are also easy to eliminate at this point]. The Strats can be rebuilt over the winter and made ready for the final push into Germany, where they crush the German supply net every turn.
In summary, I think it all evens out. I think.



gwgardner -> RE: 653N Mod v1.3 (10/13/2017 11:50:15 AM)

I see no indication that the lend-lease convoy through Oman does anything. No US lendlease to USSR. The Great Lakes convoy, also don't know. I see US to UK MPPs, but they're not labeled lendlease.



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