Ideal Order of Combat (Full Version)

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GeneralJackDRipper -> Ideal Order of Combat (8/1/2017 2:04:59 PM)

One of the game mechanics that I'm still perfecting is the ideal Order of Combat.

What is the best order of combat for the following hypothetical situation?

A lvl2 (infantry weapons tech) enemy army has entrenchment 5 in a city, one enemy fighter within intercept range.
In the 6 hexes surrounding the city, you have two lvl 2 corps, one lvl 2 army, one lvl 2 Special Forces, lvl 2 mech, lvl 2 Tank. You also have an artillery unit within range as well as one medium bomber and a Tactical bomber. You have two Fighters within escort range.

There are likely several ways to skin this cat, but what is the ideal way to attack this hex to maximize damage to the enemy unit while minimizing your own losses (measured in MPP required to repair)?

Here's how I would attack:
1. Scout with first fighter to use one intercept from enemy fighter
2. Scout with second fighter to use up second intercept from enemy fighter, clearing way for bombers.
3. artillery to remove as much entrenchment as possible and lower morale
4. med bomber to remove more entrenchment and further lower morale
5. Attack with Special Forces to remove entrenchment and lower morale

If entrenchment remains after #5
6. Attack with Mech (to remove last entrenchment), then tac bomber, corps, then Armies, then tanks.

If no entrenchment after #5
6. Attack with tac bomber, corps (cheap damage), then Mech, then Armies, then Tanks.

The theory behind this order is essentially to reduce/remove entrenchment first while lowering morale/combat effectiveness. Once all entrenchment has been removed, the priority switches to attacking with the cheapest units to repair in ascending order, i.e. corps, mech, armies, tanks.

Tanks and armies should be the same price to reinforce, so the goal in saving Tanks until last is to free them up to advance further if city is captured before they've been used.

I'm most unsure about the ideal time to use the tac bombers. Immediately after all entrenchment has been removed or later in the order?



GeneralJackDRipper -> RE: Ideal Order of Combat (8/9/2017 3:53:21 PM)

Wow nothing huh?

Guess this is each player's, "secret sauce"? lol

Well now you know how I'll attack when I meet you in a PBEM server!

[8|]



Sugar -> RE: Ideal Order of Combat (8/9/2017 4:57:12 PM)

Dear General,

I guess that`s not a matter of keeping it for oneself, the correct answer is: it depends. In your example I find the force way too strong to destroy just 1 army, even if it`s entrenchend to 5; so I would asked first: what else do I want to achieve, and which units are able to reach that 2. objective; is the enemy strong, do I have to be aware of counterattacks?

Usually the units of such an armygroup vary in experience, so in general I`d take those unts with deentrench-ability and most experience first in attacks, to keep losses down; and then the most cheap units; with the rookies to give the final blow to gather experience. And by the way, artillery with 1 lvl of arty-tech is deentrenching 2 points/shot; this is not part of your calculation, and I wonder why.

Another approach could be to consider which of those units needs upgrades/reinforcements/overstrength. Overstrength is the best way to gather furthermore experience, since you can keep 100% of experience as long as the strength doesn`t fall below 10.

I don`t see the point in keeping strengths of units at 80% of max. strength as suggested her in the forums, since this way you`re units are gathering only 80% of possible experience. On the contrary, I try to reinforce at a strength of 8 if ever possible, this way diminishing the risc of being destroyed in enemies turn.



GeneralJackDRipper -> RE: Ideal Order of Combat (8/9/2017 5:41:45 PM)

Sugar brings up two good points:
1) Of course this hypothetical force should in almost any conceivable circumstance destroy the defending Army without using all available forces. My example is only to ascertain the best theoretical order of engagement for situations where you don't have as full of a force available/in position. I could have been more clear about the intention of the post;

2) Not noting the level of tech for the Artillery unit was simply an oversight on my part, though it likely wouldn't impact where in the order of engagement artillery is used.

In terms of building experience, instead of spreading the experience around among all of my troops, as Sugar described, I usually have a goal of building up a few (usually Mech or Tank) units before/during major offensives with the goal of maximizing experience while minimizing damage taken. I strategically attack with these units after cheaper/less-experienced units have lowered the defending unit's strength and combat effectiveness as much as possible to minimize potential strength losses (and thereby expediting my ability to increase their strength above 10 with ER's). I suppose it is debatable whether it is better to have more of your units with slightly more experience or a few units with a lot more experience. I prefer the latter due to the ER strength bonus.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sugar

Dear General,

I guess that`s not a matter of keeping it for oneself, the correct answer is: it depends. In your example I find the force way too strong to destroy just 1 army, even if it`s entrenchend to 5; so I would asked first: what else do I want to achieve, and which units are able to reach that 2. objective; is the enemy strong, do I have to be aware of counterattacks?

Usually the units of such an armygroup vary in experience, so in general I`d take those unts with deentrench-ability and most experience first in attacks, to keep losses down; and then the most cheap units; with the rookies to give the final blow to gather experience. And by the way, artillery with 1 lvl of arty-tech is deentrenching 2 points/shot; this is not part of your calculation, and I wonder why.

Another approach could be to consider which of those units needs upgrades/reinforcements/overstrength. Overstrength is the best way to gather furthermore experience, since you can keep 100% of experience as long as the strength doesn`t fall below 10.

I don`t see the point in keeping strengths of units at 80% of max. strength as suggested her in the forums, since this way you`re units are gathering only 80% of possible experience. On the contrary, I try to reinforce at a strength of 8 if ever possible, this way diminishing the risc of being destroyed in enemies turn.





sPzAbt653 -> RE: Ideal Order of Combat (8/9/2017 8:42:51 PM)

quote:

Wow nothing huh?

Thinking about it was too complicated for me, so I opted not to answer [:)]



Icier -> RE: Ideal Order of Combat (8/9/2017 9:04:20 PM)

For all not familiar with General JackDRipper Quote:

“I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.”

it comes from a Movie called..........Dr.Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb .....and if you have never seen I would recommend that you do. Its
captures the cold war era paranoia & stupidity and its very funny.






Goodmongo -> RE: Ideal Order of Combat (8/10/2017 3:41:04 PM)

A major factor left out is which units are supplied and controlled by a HQ? Your offensive force consists of 10 units so some will not be supported.



GeneralJackDRipper -> RE: Ideal Order of Combat (8/10/2017 5:15:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodmongo

A major factor left out is which units are supplied and controlled by a HQ? Your offensive force consists of 10 units so some will not be supported.


I'm sure there are other factors too.

I think you all understand my purpose in starting this thread. But yes, that is also a factor. For the purpose of this exercise, figure that there are two HQ's in the area, each of the same rating and each controlling 5 units, all with the same supply. [8|]



Goodmongo -> RE: Ideal Order of Combat (8/10/2017 6:58:55 PM)

Well if all units are HQ supplied then your order makes perfect sense. And saving the tanks for last allows for you to hit some other target that another attack might have weakened. I usually try to save the tanks for last as this reduces MPP costs, saves XP on the tanks and gives me more options.

Maybe the only think I would do differently is to use my fighters to attack the enemy fighter if it's location is known instead of just a recon flight.



GeneralJackDRipper -> RE: Ideal Order of Combat (8/10/2017 8:39:13 PM)

Nice point about the fighters. Thanks for chiming in!



kcole4001 -> RE: Ideal Order of Combat (8/13/2017 12:41:57 AM)

My method is somewhat similar:
1)bombard with all available artillery
2)attack with Med. bombers supported by fighters (at least enough to match opposition), the bombers usually sustain no damage
3)use remaining attacks from fighters to further wear down enemy fighters, they're easy targets after interception
4)two or three TAC bombers hammer target depending on availability and target priority
5)ground assault led off with unit most capable of dealing damage with as little as possible in return, preferably armor or mech
6)next most potent ground attack potential, preferably armor or mech
7)infantry army or corps attacks to finish off target

Leaving the lower capability units last usually allows them to deal out at least one point of damage, where if used in attack earlier
while the defender was stronger the corps, etc. attacks would likely have no effect.

A tactic I've had good success with is to oust a defender from a city/town/resource hex and then make a pocket around any additional forces nearby,
so as to deprive them of their supply source.
Make the encirclement good and strong and the next turn that their supply is less than 5 you can slaughter the pocket and the opponent can't buy them back cheaply.
Not to mention the extra turn or two that the unit sin the pocket are out of circulation, since their combat potential is now pretty low.
Add that to the production delay and you won't see that unit again for a while.

Not so relevant in France, but important when you're dealing with British and especially Russian units.
The longer they're off the map the more time you have to exploit the gap.



James Taylor -> RE: Ideal Order of Combat (8/14/2017 11:02:07 PM)

Obviously artillery is the best choice for reducing an enemy position, but I always carry about 3 corps, unteched, for each army group to remove entrenchments.

Don't use an HQ attachment, but move them into the adjacent hexes for the targeted enemy unit and use them to "soak off" those entrenchments.(they're the cheapest)

Move them back immediately to clear the way for the "killers" and protect your flanks. Don't strengthen them for awhile, let them build experience and then eventually you'll need to replace them as they'll become the killers as you nurse them along with HQ help and they gain experience.



GeneralJackDRipper -> RE: Ideal Order of Combat (8/16/2017 12:50:33 PM)

I am fairly certain Corps units have zero de-entrenchment value. Can someone please confirm?


quote:

ORIGINAL: James Taylor

Obviously artillery is the best choice for reducing an enemy position, but I always carry about 3 corps, unteched, for each army group to remove entrenchments.

Don't use an HQ attachment, but move them into the adjacent hexes for the targeted enemy unit and use them to "soak off" those entrenchments.(they're the cheapest)

Move them back immediately to clear the way for the "killers" and protect your flanks. Don't strengthen them for awhile, let them build experience and then eventually you'll need to replace them as they'll become the killers as you nurse them along with HQ help and they gain experience.




BillRunacre -> RE: Ideal Order of Combat (8/16/2017 3:36:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GeneralJackDRipper

I am fairly certain Corps units have zero de-entrenchment value. Can someone please confirm?



Hi Jack

They do have a de-entrenchment value of 1.

Bill



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