Cost of Cold War Era Soviet Submarines (Full Version)

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LoBlo -> Cost of Cold War Era Soviet Submarines (8/4/2017 2:09:23 PM)

Anyone got a good source for cost estimates for the old Soviet double hull submarines? Its in the communism era, so its hard to find reliable cost analysis for those platforms.

The double hull designs of the old soviet submarines was always impressive, but one of the biggest criticisms of the double hulls was manufacturing complexity. Its been hard to find any real cost estimates on what one of those double hulls really would cost in modern dollars compared to their single hull counterparts.



Tailhook -> RE: Cost of Cold War Era Soviet Submarines (8/4/2017 3:59:47 PM)

I recently read that the OSCAR II cost half as much as an aircraft carrier. It didn't specify if that was a US CVN or the Kuznetsov, but still quite the investment regardless.



Cik -> RE: Cost of Cold War Era Soviet Submarines (8/4/2017 5:11:21 PM)

i mean, can you do a cost analysis for a military asset in a communist state?

the materials cost X, and the labor costs at least the cost of living of all the people working on it, but the state has "de facto" unlimited money at it's disposal, doesn't it? the limit then is not cost, but manpower, know-how, and the raw resources (uranium, whatever crazy alloy they're coating it with and making it out of, etc)

i guess you could construct a rough analog if you worked backwards from a completed ship, tallied out the sum total of all the components used, and then tried to match that to what a western-based company would have paid for it all. but i don't know if that really helps.

seems to me that such an analysis is rare because it's either very hard or relatively impossible.

correct me if i'm wrong though, it's an interesting topic.



sven6345789 -> RE: Cost of Cold War Era Soviet Submarines (8/4/2017 6:02:43 PM)

I found the price for a Borei class sub

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/borei-class/

The price is 718 million U.S.-Dollars

According to this source, the modernization of a typhoon class costs twice as much as a new Borei class sub.

I guess the price for a new typhoon was similar to the price of an Ohio class sub, which cost about 1,8 billion Dollars.

http://www.military-today.com/navy/typhoon_class.htm

Finally, according to this source, the price of a Delta III was 150 Million Rubel in the 70s, while a typhoon cost three times as much ( official exchange rate was 1 Rubel for 1 pound sterling). Exchange rate in 1975 was 1 pound = about 2,3 Dollars

https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/historical-spot-exchange-rates/gbp/GBP-to-USD-1975


https://www.amazon.de/s/url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=1588340074

Maybe you should try to find this book in a library or on Amazon .



Filitch -> RE: Cost of Cold War Era Soviet Submarines (8/4/2017 8:28:42 PM)

In the mid-80's 949A cost about 262 million rubles. Official exchange rate was $1 = 0.7 soviet ruble. So in dollars 949A cost $374 000 000. AFAIK Nimitz class carrier cost 12 times more.



Panther Bait -> RE: Cost of Cold War Era Soviet Submarines (8/4/2017 8:41:12 PM)

I am not sure it's quite as simplistic as Cik describes (even Communists have to have budgets and funding, particularly when you have to deal with other nations), but he has an excellent point that whatever figures are available for the cost of subs from a Soviet source are probably highly misleading, if not downright fictional. It would be very easy for a Communist state to monkey the books to make a project look like it cost whatever served the national interest. I strongly suspect it happens in the US as well, but at least it's harder to do here.

Mike



ultradave -> RE: Cost of Cold War Era Soviet Submarines (8/4/2017 11:02:24 PM)


quote:

I strongly suspect it happens in the US as well, but at least it's harder to do here.


Considering the cost accounting that we have to do for the Navy, as does NNL, component manufacturers, and vendors, I doubt this. At least in the submarine world. I don't know about the rest of the defense world.

Discrepancies in costs usually are a case of whether one story has data that includes class design costs and lead ship extra testing, as opposed to say, the average cost of ships in a class. Of course, THAT number is a moving target as costs decrease as more ships in the class are built with a learning curve and cost reduction ideas implemented. I have no reason to believe that the books are cooked in the US submarine world. In fact, quite the opposite. And the Navy drives a hard bargain :-)



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