Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (Full Version)

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Dragnov -> Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/19/2017 12:35:06 PM)

Hello everyone,

I have recently picked up the and its been all fine and dandy til I have expanded to a dozen colonies: population would not grow, development came to a stall. I have pin-pointed it to resource shortage of everything. Which left me baffled, because I seem to have massive stockpiles... except it seems my private sector is draining all colonies and hauls it to my Homeworld, the only colony with a real space port.

I realized I have been using star bases as rec/med hubs over colonies over actual ports as this was a popular suggestion in some topics I have read. But now it makes me wonder whether its hard coded that only colonies with space ports get resupplied?



RogerBacon -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/19/2017 1:58:06 PM)

I'm pretty srue that star bases don't receive supplies except as needed for upgrades and fueling. I've only ever seen them in deep space as listening stations. Yes, every colony needs a spaceport.



RemoteLeg -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/19/2017 2:57:34 PM)

Every colony does not need a spaceport. Spaceports are built to perform specific functions such as build ships, monitor the area, and collect revenue from trade. Sometimes I colonize a planet simply for the strategic value and those colonies rarely get a space port. Like you, I often build star bases for buffing my colonies, but that's another matter.

Perhaps the space port at your home world is doing all the building? That might explain why the freighters are taking all your resources there - the home world has the highest demand for those resources. Try building a few more space ports around your empire and see if the freighters spread out the resources.
Resources can certainly be delivered to planets without space ports.



stuart3 -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/19/2017 6:05:32 PM)

Resources have to come from somewhere. Have you built sufficient mining stations in and around the systems containing your colonies to supply those resources?



btd64 -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/19/2017 6:44:36 PM)

I build 1 spaceport for every 3 colonies. Good rule of thumb. You do want to place them in Strategic locations....GP



SirHoraceHarkness -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/20/2017 4:43:04 AM)

I build a space port on every colony but only the major worlds get a large port. All the rest get a small port for to the economic bonus and due to the near non existent build and upkeep cost. Plus when I need to build a shizzton of ships during a war I can pause and fill up every port with orders and with that much parallel construction you can build entire fleets in a wink.



Bingeling -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/20/2017 6:04:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dragnov

Hello everyone,

I have recently picked up the and its been all fine and dandy til I have expanded to a dozen colonies: population would not grow, development came to a stall. I have pin-pointed it to resource shortage of everything. Which left me baffled, because I seem to have massive stockpiles... except it seems my private sector is draining all colonies and hauls it to my Homeworld, the only colony with a real space port.

I realized I have been using star bases as rec/med hubs over colonies over actual ports as this was a popular suggestion in some topics I have read. But now it makes me wonder whether its hard coded that only colonies with space ports get resupplied?

The key with using star bases and not spaceports is that they should not draw any resources. It seems like you may have shipyards on your star bases, which would defeat the point.

If you do not have shipyards, you should not get shortages everywhere, as all freighters would pick up stuff at the spaceport (capital), and it has the only shipyards. The only thing built at other colonies should be the star base and the odd resupply, colony or construction ship.

That being said, you probably want spaceports to cover your area (so it is not too far), but you would never want a construction yard anywhere else than on these spaceports.



Dragnov -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/21/2017 5:51:07 PM)

Thanks for answers everyone. I got massive stockpiles on my homeworld, but my colonies without spaceports got their goods hauled away constantly, leaving them at perma shortage.

No shipyards on my star bases. Maybe the commerce center on it is to blame?



Bingeling -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/21/2017 6:47:54 PM)

What is causing your shortages? Ship construction, mine upgrades, mine building or others?

I assume it is not fuel shortages (those are a separate chapter, you need lots of mines).



Hattori Hanzo -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/22/2017 1:08:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirHoraceHarkness

I build a space port on every colony but only the major worlds get a large port. All the rest get a small port for to the economic bonus and due to the near non existent build and upkeep cost. Plus when I need to build a shizzton of ships during a war I can pause and fill up every port with orders and with that much parallel construction you can build entire fleets in a wink.


hi SirHoraceHarkness, I find your Space Ports strategy interesting and different from the usual ones..

when do you build the small Starport on the new colonizerd planets ?

immediately after colonization (or conquest) or after a while ?



Dragnov -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/22/2017 9:24:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

What is causing your shortages? Ship construction, mine upgrades, mine building or others?

I assume it is not fuel shortages (those are a separate chapter, you need lots of mines).

I am not sure, to be honest, everything gets hauled out of my colonies and nothing seems to be hauled in. I switched my star bases to small space ports and bam, it all gets redistributed. Which is a bit of nuisance for refueling big fleets...



Retreat1970 -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/22/2017 9:53:11 PM)

quote:

I am not sure, to be honest, everything gets hauled out of my colonies and nothing seems to be hauled in. I switched my star bases to small space ports and bam, it all gets redistributed. Which is a bit of nuisance for refueling big fleets


Spaceports build ships. You need lots of resources to build ships. It's why cargo ships flock to them. Colonies with no spaceports need the minimum of resources except luxuries which are consumed. As to how many spaceports, I've played with one spaceport and I've played with spaceports on all. It didn't matter to me, but I decided that spaceports on the front lines worked better. Just my two cents.



Bingeling -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/23/2017 4:51:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dragnov


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

What is causing your shortages? Ship construction, mine upgrades, mine building or others?

I assume it is not fuel shortages (those are a separate chapter, you need lots of mines).

I am not sure, to be honest, everything gets hauled out of my colonies and nothing seems to be hauled in. I switched my star bases to small space ports and bam, it all gets redistributed. Which is a bit of nuisance for refueling big fleets...

My best guess is that it was the commerce center to blame as you wrote above. If you just put a "recreation and medical" center above the colony under star base design, it should not do anything.

And as you discovered, a few spaceports around can be useful to refuel fleets. But with too many spaceports, they may all lack enough fuel.



SirHoraceHarkness -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/24/2017 5:41:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hattori Hanzo

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirHoraceHarkness

I build a space port on every colony but only the major worlds get a large port. All the rest get a small port for to the economic bonus and due to the near non existent build and upkeep cost. Plus when I need to build a shizzton of ships during a war I can pause and fill up every port with orders and with that much parallel construction you can build entire fleets in a wink.


hi SirHoraceHarkness, I find your Space Ports strategy interesting and different from the usual ones..

when do you build the small Starport on the new colonizerd planets ?

immediately after colonization (or conquest) or after a while ?



As soon as I start a game I go into empire policy under colonization and set it to build an ssp-1 as soon as a colony is founded. I use icemania's ai mod and the ssp-1 is pure bare bones with little cost in construction or upkeep but has a commerce center for the economic bonus and of course the docking and construction bays. I eventually upgrade them to current tech levels or even go to a medium port if my economy is particularly hot but just the basic ssp-1 really is all you need for secondary colonies.



Dragnov -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/27/2017 12:10:08 PM)

Welp, I am at loss here, really. 2136 with six colonies going. Seems anything but actual spaceports results in massive shortages in my colonies which leads to revolts and stagnation. Tried taking off commerce center off star bases, but still got the same issue.

Anyone knows how the game distributes resources? Does it spread it even across space ports? Does each space port have assigned specific number of mines? Do freighters actually haul goods from mines to nearest colony and then redistribute or head to whatever is on priority list?

I really want to enjoy the game, but this issue is killing me, ha ha.



Bingeling -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/27/2017 12:59:21 PM)

I am not sure what you are doing, since I have never had those issues. My best guess is that you lack sources or are swarmed by pirates killing/chasing your freighters. Or all your freighters are out of fuel, trying to hump over to the other side of the galaxy where there is supposed to be some fuel available. Or maybe you zero tax, and the civilians are all broke, not being able to afford ships.

With some active mines, you can just build a small spaceport over your capital, fund your 6 colonies, and you will not see shortages if you got mines. You will probably want to upgrade that spaceport, though (as you need some shipyards). And if you are at full war with pirates, you probably have no mines.

Revolt are probably due to taxing heavily or doing something very weird. Look at the colony details that gives a breakdown of happiness modifiers. Lacking resources should not lead to revolt if you tax according to it (it should be a minor happiness modifier).

You should aim to get:

1: One source of every strategic. And probably a spare.
2: Extra sources for common stuff that is much used (steel, gold). And anything you get short of.
3: You want to build a mine on every fuel source.
4: You want at least 10 luxury sources for max development, aiming for one of each type does not hurt.

Putting small spaceports makes the AI work on distributing all kind of strategics everywhere, making freighters busy doing unimportant stuff, but I think they should handle it these days.

The colony will send a freighter to the nearest source to fill its need. Usually a spaceport, possibly a mine.



BigWolfChris -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/27/2017 1:02:39 PM)

IIRC colonies with ports will aim to have a minimum of every resource. Other colonies will aim for a minimum of any resource used by colonies themselves

All colonies will aim to have luxury resources spread out, and I think higher population worlds are higher priority to getting orders filled

If anything, it sounds like you might have a general resource shortage. If resources were only being taken to the homeworld when it was the only planet with a port, it means the amount it's asking for hasn't been hit yet. And yes building more ports has it distributed, but you'll find you've simply spread out the shortage across worlds. Though unless you're constantly building ships, or neglected making mines, 36 years should have been more than enough, so it is strange



btd64 -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/27/2017 1:19:48 PM)

I have been monitoring the thread and running some tests. Conclusion, You need to go into the expansion planner and pick planets/gas giants that have the resources you need, closest to your colonies and set them up in the que to build mines. But just the resources you need at the moment....GP



Dragnov -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/27/2017 1:54:25 PM)

Thanks for all for the posts, guys. I still can't resolve the issue WITHOUT using space port on every single colony. Freighters literally haul everything out of colonies into homeworld which sits at hundred of thousands of each basic commodity. No pirates or wars whatsoever.

I wish I could upload screens but there's forum block due being new member.

Is there somewhere I could edit how much of each commodity each colony needs? How are the minimums calculated?




Retreat1970 -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/27/2017 8:18:29 PM)

Why does every colony have to have so many resources? Are they using them? I don't understand why this is an issue. I'm sorry.



Shark7 -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/28/2017 2:29:57 AM)

I use star bases over most colonies while reserving space ports for for hub systems in my play through. One thing to watch for is not to over-design your star bases, in order to keep maintenance costs down. They really defeat the purpose if you are spending more to maintain the star base than your colony collects in taxes.

As far as resources, if you look at the resource text file that you can mod, you can see how much of each resource a colony will require. It's also completely adjustable from this file if you so desire.

Also, space ports draw in resources to themselves, since they are building the ships. The more space ports you have, the more resources you need have to keep the space ports 'fully stocked'. If you have too many space ports, they are constantly vying for the limited amount of resources and will constantly cause shortages of resource stock, which in turns drives up your maintenance costs. And if you have too few space ports, the logistics lines from your mines to the space ports (which is where the stuff is generally hauled to first) are too long, causing delays which causes shortages which drives up maintenance costs.

It really does require a lot of careful thought and balancing. Too many space ports and they will always be starved for resources. Too few spaceports and your freighters will always be choked up trying to load/unload, burning up huge amounts of fuel, or running out of fuel on the trip slowing the delivery.

My new rule of thumb is to have very cheap star bases with medical/recreational facilities over all planets for the bonuses, but have only 1 space port per grid square. So far, this seems to be striking a good balance for me.



Dragnov -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/28/2017 9:26:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

I use star bases over most colonies while reserving space ports for for hub systems in my play through. One thing to watch for is not to over-design your star bases, in order to keep maintenance costs down. They really defeat the purpose if you are spending more to maintain the star base than your colony collects in taxes.

As far as resources, if you look at the resource text file that you can mod, you can see how much of each resource a colony will require. It's also completely adjustable from this file if you so desire.

Thanks, that's the file I have been looking for. I will fiddle around and see what happens.

My "Colony Customs" star bases are bare bones and cost only 500 maintenance.

It's new game now and I am sticking to Homeworld plus one colony for testing purposes and the issue is still there:

I have noticed reaaaaally vexing thing: my freighters are sucking my colonies dry (all critical resources are reserved the moment they are hauled in) in favor of Homeworld - like Caslon - but I have mines in same system sitting at stocked up tens of thousands of said resources! Between my Homeworld and Colony 1, they have got only 25k Caslon (23k on HW, 3k on C1 which is now reserved) but the gas mines around have like 300k stocked up! Makes me wonder what the hell is going on here.



Bingeling -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/28/2017 10:34:37 AM)

I wonder what is happening too. The homeworld (spaceports) does suck up resources, but that is the way it is. This should not prevent the colony from having the meager resources they ask for if they are present.

So if you indeed have the problems you describe, my best guess is that you have a resource shortage from lacking mines, or that your freighters are prevented from doing their work (lack of fuel, pirates).

Keep in mind, that it should be natural to have a delay of building a new (tiny) star base right away, as the colony would require materials for the construction to arrive.

If you look in the colony inventory, you will see amount stored and reserved for each resource. The building project will put the needed materials as reserved, and if the two values are the same, it means that the colony has no units to spare (all are reserved).

So if you get "shortage of chromium", check your colony/spaceport inventory, and see if there is anything free. I would guess you will have some reserved, and a lower amount in store.



Dragnov -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/28/2017 11:22:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

I wonder what is happening too. The homeworld (spaceports) does suck up resources, but that is the way it is. This should not prevent the colony from having the meager resources they ask for if they are present.

So if you indeed have the problems you describe, my best guess is that you have a resource shortage from lacking mines, or that your freighters are prevented from doing their work (lack of fuel, pirates).

Keep in mind, that it should be natural to have a delay of building a new (tiny) star base right away, as the colony would require materials for the construction to arrive.

If you look in the colony inventory, you will see amount stored and reserved for each resource. The building project will put the needed materials as reserved, and if the two values are the same, it means that the colony has no units to spare (all are reserved).

So if you get "shortage of chromium", check your colony/spaceport inventory, and see if there is anything free. I would guess you will have some reserved, and a lower amount in store.

Thanks, Bingeling, though I have already went through those sanity checks:
1) there are no pirate or wars disturbing my freighters whatsoever

2) quite a few freighters seem to be idling around with no mission

3) I have more than a dozen mines that seem to be sitting at full stockpiles and don't get any traffic

4) quite a few freighters fly around with fraction of their cargo capacity

5) I am NOT building any ships or anything that would drain resources on Homeworld, neither is private sector

6) Homeworld has stockpiles going from 90k (Caslon, my main fuel) to 600k of other goods

7) Colony 1 already has its small star base built, so that is not the cause of shortages

8) (NEW with Bacon mod) I have manually ordered transports from Homeworld to Colony 1, so it had the shortage penalty removed for a month or two

9) Freighters keep draining resources from Colony 1 and hauling it to Homeworld for no apparent reason

I have no idea why Colony 1 is stripped of everything when Homeworld is full of resources and so are numerous mines.

Freighters seem to prioritize stripping Colony 1 even if it means only hauling 50-300 goods at a time when I have got mines with 10-40k untouched stockpiles.



Bingeling -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/28/2017 12:22:48 PM)

9: Freighters are moving to homeworld, because stuff should be moved to the spaceport. There is no need to have it sitting around on colonies.

Why they don't take stuff from mines instead is a different question...

What are the actual shortages you got?



Dragnov -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/28/2017 12:52:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling
What are the actual shortages you got?

I would say nothing, because homeworld has hundred of thousands. Colonies are drained of everything and by that I mean everything. Even Lead which my Homeworld seems to have 700k of?



Bingeling -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/28/2017 3:44:21 PM)

Colonies does not need lead. They want luxuries and the strategics that are race specific (two kinds). A little fuel is also nice, of course, to refill visitors.

Resources are gathered at spaceports, and distributed from there (in the usual scenario).



Dragnov -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/28/2017 5:09:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

Colonies does not need lead. They want luxuries and the strategics that are race specific (two kinds). A little fuel is also nice, of course, to refill visitors.

Resources are gathered at spaceports, and distributed from there (in the usual scenario).

You say that but for some reason lead is listed when the yellow shortage message appears, which kills happiness, development and pop growth.



Shark7 -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/28/2017 8:42:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dragnov

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

Colonies does not need lead. They want luxuries and the strategics that are race specific (two kinds). A little fuel is also nice, of course, to refill visitors.

Resources are gathered at spaceports, and distributed from there (in the usual scenario).

You say that but for some reason lead is listed when the yellow shortage message appears, which kills happiness, development and pop growth.


That means that you don't have enough to cover your shipbuilding needs. You may not be ordering military ships, but if you look you probably have civilian ships queued that are waiting for resources to complete. Also, your colonies can produce Construction Ships and Colony ships even without a spaceport present. So my guess is that either you just don't have enough sources of lead yet, or your civilian economy is expanding rapidly, ordering new ships to be built at a rapid pace.

I've found this to be especially true in the early game, as the Civilian economy never starts a game with enough freighters, mining ships or mines to cover your needs, and will order dozens of ships at a time. In one game I had over 50 freighters queued for building at my spaceport within the first 5 minutes of game play. That requires an enormous amount of resources you probably don't have stock-piled.

What you need to do is go into your expamsion planner and click the first 'Unfulfilled' column twice. This will bring the most needed resource to the top of the list. You can then order your construction ships to build mines to acquire that resource and start getting it built up. Just make sure you have at least one source for every resource you need. If more are showing up short, then you need to order more mines for that type of resource.



Edit: I seem to be having forum issues today. [&:]



Retreat1970 -> RE: Spaceport vs star base over colony: resources shortage. (8/28/2017 8:59:11 PM)

quote:

Colonies does not need lead


They do. Every resource. Colonies need resources to build bases, constructors and colony ships.



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