Jpn planes (Full Version)

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gmtello -> Jpn planes (9/19/2017 8:20:36 PM)

Could someone explain the best use for Sonia's , Lilis nells and betties naval/ ground or whatsoever and loads



Yaab -> RE: Jpn planes (9/19/2017 9:39:00 PM)

Lilly - dives into pockets
Sonia - takes pictures
Nell and Betty - ride torpedo



geofflambert -> RE: Jpn planes (9/19/2017 10:59:51 PM)

The following are as good as anything for trainers: Sonya, Ida and Nate. I like to use Ann and Mary for ASW, but if not that bombers in China.



geofflambert -> RE: Jpn planes (9/19/2017 11:04:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Lilly - dives into pockets
Sonia - takes pictures
Nell and Betty - ride torpedo


Lilly is good for ASW once you have crews trained, also naval attack. Nell and Betty should be training Kate and Judy crews to deliver torpedoes, otherwise delivering them themselves. A huge hole for the IJN to fill is naval search, which carrier air crews must be adept at to succeed, but you'll likely use floatplanes to train for that.



geofflambert -> RE: Jpn planes (9/19/2017 11:10:17 PM)

It's not a bad idea to have IJA bomber crews adept at naval attack, that will come in handy later on. Two thirds of your active aircrews should be training for something else rather than wasting themselves bombing land targets. Just not very effective and losses come with that. Sinking ships (and subs) is the best payoff.



PaxMondo -> RE: Jpn planes (9/20/2017 2:55:52 AM)

For me:
IJA 1E's => training aircraft after about 2/42.
Lilly => beached. 400ks load for 2E is just too $$$ for me.
Sally/Helen = build all game. Use all game. It is what you get. Early war they are competitive, by mid '43 they are outclassed badly by allied MB's, but you still have to use what you have.
Nell/Betty = night bombers as they were used historically. the second Nell in particular build all game. Great as 2E patrol/recon. Great night bomber.

Night bombing requires high EXP pilots to be effective (+80), so you need to use your bombers a LOT to get a good pool of high EXP pilots. Night NAV attacks with Nell/Betty are also very effective against allies all war.



Aurorus -> RE: Jpn planes (9/20/2017 3:36:33 AM)

I will take a different tack than the others. I use Sonias, Lillies, Anns, Sallies, Helens... all of them... in front-line duties. You want to try to match payload and supply use to target. With 4 x 50 KG bombs, Sonias are effective against soft targets in open ground. As 1-engine light bombers, they also use half the supply of the level bombers. With 1 x 800 Kg bomb, Anns are very effective against hard targets, such as tanks, or as ASW platforms, since an 800 Kg bomb is often enough to sink a sub outright. The initial Lilly is not very helpful, because 4 x 100 KG bombs are only marginally better than the 4 x 50 KG for the Sonia at twice the supply. However, the Lilly is the first plane to upgrade to armor, in April 1942. The Lily IIa is a very helpful plane. As Japan, you will often encounter your opponent flying his planes, including CAP, very high. With armor, the Lilly IIa is less susceptible to light ground fire and can be used at low altitudes. A single raid at low altitude will often come in under high-flying CAP without being intercepted. Used appropriately, this can also force your opponent to drop his CAP down to altitudes that better suit Japanese early war aircraft. Sallies are your best all-purpose bomber. They are best used against soft targets in more difficult terrain and in areas of heavy flak, because of their higher durability. Helens are similar in every respect to Sallies.

Nells and Betties are all-purpose aircraft and can be used as torpedo bombers, ground attack aircraft, and search planes. They shine in airfield attacks because of their mixed payload that includes both 250 KG bombs and 50 Kg bombs. The larger number of bombs often will result in more damaged planes. Sometimes, especially when attacking ports, both Nells and Betties will change their payload to 800 KG bombs, which are effective against any ship, even heavy armor.

In short, use your bomber selection to make your payload fit your target.



Chris21wen -> RE: Jpn planes (9/20/2017 6:41:19 AM)

Not mention here is light bombers can use level 2 a/f with full effectiveness.  MB/HB require level 4 or greater depending on bomb load.



PaxMondo -> RE: Jpn planes (9/20/2017 12:55:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

I will take a different tack than the others. I use Sonias, Lillies, Anns, Sallies, Helens... all of them... in front-line duties. You want to try to match payload and supply use to target. With 4 x 50 KG bombs, Sonias are effective against soft targets in open ground. As 1-engine light bombers, they also use half the supply of the level bombers. With 1 x 800 Kg bomb, Anns are very effective against hard targets, such as tanks, or as ASW platforms, since an 800 Kg bomb is often enough to sink a sub outright. The initial Lilly is not very helpful, because 4 x 100 KG bombs are only marginally better than the 4 x 50 KG for the Sonia at twice the supply. However, the Lilly is the first plane to upgrade to armor, in April 1942. The Lily IIa is a very helpful plane. As Japan, you will often encounter your opponent flying his planes, including CAP, very high. With armor, the Lilly IIa is less susceptible to light ground fire and can be used at low altitudes. A single raid at low altitude will often come in under high-flying CAP without being intercepted. Used appropriately, this can also force your opponent to drop his CAP down to altitudes that better suit Japanese early war aircraft. Sallies are your best all-purpose bomber. They are best used against soft targets in more difficult terrain and in areas of heavy flak, because of their higher durability. Helens are similar in every respect to Sallies.

Nells and Betties are all-purpose aircraft and can be used as torpedo bombers, ground attack aircraft, and search planes. They shine in airfield attacks because of their mixed payload that includes both 250 KG bombs and 50 Kg bombs. The larger number of bombs often will result in more damaged planes. Sometimes, especially when attacking ports, both Nells and Betties will change their payload to 800 KG bombs, which are effective against any ship, even heavy armor.

In short, use your bomber selection to make your payload fit your target.

In stock Ann is 1x250 as is Mary.



rustysi -> RE: Jpn planes (9/22/2017 6:04:18 PM)

quote:

With 1 x 800 Kg bomb, Anns are very effective against hard targets,


Don't think Ann will carry an 800kg.

quote:

both Nells and Betties will change their payload to 800 KG bombs,


Never seen this either. Doesn't mean no, just never seen it. Maybe someone else could add.

quote:

Not mention here is light bombers can use level 2 a/f with full effectiveness.


Single best reason to use 1E bombers early in the game. Operate effectively from small airfields.



Grfin Zeppelin -> RE: Jpn planes (9/22/2017 6:15:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

[

quote:

both Nells and Betties will change their payload to 800 KG bombs,


Never seen this either. Doesn't mean no, just never seen it. Maybe someone else could add.



They do that surprisingly sometimes within the first turns of a new game. Its rare and only a few do it.
Like there is a hidden stockpile somewhere.



Lowpe -> RE: Jpn planes (9/22/2017 6:26:17 PM)

Bomb ports with Nells and Betties and they will drop the big girl every now and then. Kates will to. Not restricted to the first few turns.



GetAssista -> RE: Jpn planes (9/22/2017 6:27:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi
quote:

both Nells and Betties will change their payload to 800 KG bombs,

Never seen this either. Doesn't mean no, just never seen it. Maybe someone else could add.

They do that surprisingly sometimes within the first turns of a new game. Its rare and only a few do it.
Like there is a hidden stockpile somewhere.

Pretty common for the first turn, and happens now and them with port attack mission and high xp pilots. Starting-level monster pilots (80+ xp) will use those very often on port bombing



Grfin Zeppelin -> RE: Jpn planes (9/22/2017 6:29:09 PM)

So many years and I still dont know everything........



rustysi -> RE: Jpn planes (9/22/2017 6:50:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

So many years and I still dont know everything........


Who does?



BBfanboy -> RE: Jpn planes (9/22/2017 7:30:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin
quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi
quote:

both Nells and Betties will change their payload to 800 KG bombs,

Never seen this either. Doesn't mean no, just never seen it. Maybe someone else could add.

They do that surprisingly sometimes within the first turns of a new game. Its rare and only a few do it.
Like there is a hidden stockpile somewhere.

Pretty common for the first turn, and happens now and them with port attack mission and high xp pilots. Starting-level monster pilots (80+ xp) will use those very often on port bombing

From looking at the Editor and the device pools in the Intel Report area I know there are pools for the standard 250KG bombs as well as the others. I assume that the Nells and Bettys would only load the bigger bomb if they have used the pool of 250KG bombs - most likely to happen at game start when new production has not increased the pools yet.



GetAssista -> RE: Jpn planes (9/22/2017 7:42:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
From looking at the Editor and the device pools in the Intel Report area I know there are pools for the standard 250KG bombs as well as the others. I assume that the Nells and Bettys would only load the bigger bomb if they have used the pool of 250KG bombs - most likely to happen at game start when new production has not increased the pools yet.

Bombs never worked like this. You cannot run out of bombs

This is start of the long list of Allied AI ships that were sunk by 800 AP bombs in my recent game. Those that are listed not in port probably sunk when fleeing, or is it FOW. Note that dates are all over the place.

[image]local://upfiles/32892/BB69F90897E644DBB7C6AEB00B6634B0.jpg[/image]



decourcy2 -> RE: Jpn planes (9/22/2017 8:42:55 PM)

I approve of the tuna boats getting hit by an 800kg bomb! Kaboom! There would be nothing to clean up.



Lowpe -> RE: Jpn planes (9/22/2017 8:43:00 PM)

The 800 kg is another gift to the Empire...like Norms.



BBfanboy -> RE: Jpn planes (9/22/2017 8:44:47 PM)

We know that Kates carried the 800 kg bomb when they did not carry torpedoes. Same for Jills I presume. The surprise was having Nells and Bettys drop them.

As for never running out of bombs - that would be true for the Allies I guess, but would if be the same for the Japanese? Why have bomb pools in the database at all if they never run out?

Have you another explanation for why 2-EBs drop them early in the game but not often in the later game? Or why they would load them at all when they normally fly with 250kg bombs?



MakeeLearn -> RE: Jpn planes (9/22/2017 8:51:16 PM)

quote:

castor troy

Those bombs were converted BB shells and IIRC only used for the Pearl Harbour attack.


quote:

Panther Bait -> RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb (8/22/2008 3:24:28 PM)

As far as I know, not all of the Japanese 800 kg bombs were modified BB shells. The initial ones used at PH were, but there were other versions of the 800 kg bomb designed after that. However, I'll admit that I have no idea how many of these were actually produced or used IRL.



quote:

wild_Willie2 -> RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb (8/21/2008 2:28:24 PM)

800KG bombs are used by all japanese torpedo carrying AC on port attack missions.



quote:

Q-Ball -> RE: The 800Kg AP Bomb (8/21/2008 3:13:36 PM)

They are also used by Nells/Bettys flying from lvl 2 and lvl 3 airfields on Naval Attack. I prefer Torps, but it's sort of an interesting trick to keep a lvl 3 AF around if you want to drop 800kg bombs, which can hurt anything including a BB.

But mostly, I have seen them used on Port Attacks.



quote:


ndworl
No height restriction that I have seen. I typically send in the Kates at 10,000 feet and they've usually preferred the 800kg bomb to torpedoes. I've sent in Nells and Bettys at various heights, from 5 to 15 thousand feet and overwhelmingly they've used 800kg bombs.



etc.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/printable.asp?m=1895316





MakeeLearn -> RE: Jpn planes (9/22/2017 8:57:04 PM)

Nakajima B5N2 taking off from a Japanese carrier with a 800 kg bomb, probably early 1942.

[image]local://upfiles/55056/1D424804C9C041EB868646511C662349.jpg[/image]



GetAssista -> RE: Jpn planes (9/22/2017 9:16:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
As for never running out of bombs - that would be true for the Allies I guess, but would if be the same for the Japanese? Why have bomb pools in the database at all if they never run out?

Have you actually tried finding bombs in the Japanese pools in game? They are not there. And yes, there is some junk in the database.
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
Have you another explanation for why 2-EBs drop them early in the game but not often in the later game? Or why they would load them at all when they normally fly with 250kg bombs?

My list of ships has dates all over the place. In the beginning of the game you can catch many ships in ports. Not so afterwards. Planes load those bombs when they pass checks as designed, eh

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
etc.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/printable.asp?m=1895316

This is actually quite old thread, I would not use it as a reference. E.g. 2E flying with big bombs from level 2 airfields



Yaab -> RE: Jpn planes (9/22/2017 9:23:15 PM)

At start, the IJN bomber pilots are elite. You have bomber airgroups in Takao that have average experience 70, which is the value needed to pass a check for using 800kg bombs. You also have zero pilots in reserve. Once the elite ones start dying, the average experience in airgroups will drop. This is why they use 800kg bombs at start and 250kg bombs later on.



MakeeLearn -> RE: Jpn planes (9/22/2017 9:25:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista




quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
etc.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/printable.asp?m=1895316

This is actually quite old thread, I would not use it as a reference. E.g. 2E flying with big bombs from level 2 airfields



Yes, is this the foundation of War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition?. Thought there might be something hidden within, posts or code.



BBfanboy -> RE: Jpn planes (9/23/2017 2:36:00 AM)

Thanks for the update - haven't seen Nells or Bettys using the 800 kg bomb so I thought that must be a quirky circumstance. Did not know it was selectable for naval strike. I play the AI and usually see only torps for Naval Strike and smaller bombs for land attacks.



Yaab -> RE: Jpn planes (9/23/2017 6:42:28 AM)

Check here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4211405



geofflambert -> RE: Jpn planes (9/23/2017 5:54:39 PM)

My view may be unusual. From the Japanese perspective (this does not apply to the US in particular) bombing ground targets is a bust for the most part, even when you're on the offensive. If you're not planning to lose a major carrier battle early, but in fact to maintain a potent carrier arm with well trained crews at least 2/3 of your active crews need to be training. TB and DB crews need to be proficient in naval attack with both bombs and the TBs of course with TTs. They also need to be proficient in naval search and ASW and I recommend both types be used in both those activities. It will take a long time to develop those crews and most of your Bettys, Nells, Mabels and Jeans should be training for TT attack. After turn one never attack ground targets, airbases or ports with carrier aircraft, you can't afford the losses. All land based ASW and a large part if not a majority of land based naval search not including FPs should be taken on by the IJA. I like Ann and Mary for ASW in tight spaces and Lilly for ASW in larger spaces. I don't think much of bombing Chinese troops even if they're in the open. The Chinese aren't going to beat you. If I can have some Lilly squadrons trained in naval attack, I'm happy. I like to have Babs and Dinah crews trained both in Recon and Search. If I can find a way I'll even train Sally and Helen crews in Search and Naval Attack. The war is fought in the air, on the sea and under the sea. You'll never have enough IJN crews to do all the work so the IJA must pick up the slack. Bombing ground targets yields attrition in crews and planes with little tangible results. Sinking ships and subs is always good. In summation, use everything you can get your hands on to train, train, train and aside from recon and fighter training, most resources should be directed toward the sea.



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