What to do? - what to do? (Full Version)

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Capt. Pixel -> What to do? - what to do? (5/18/2003 10:37:43 PM)

So,

I regularly play a friend who has developed a particularly narrow scope for SPWAW battles. All he ever wants to play is the US post WWII. He also almost never accepts the second player position.

As many of you will recognize, this means I end up being his huckleberry in just about every match we play. I'm not claiming to be a SPWAW God or anything. (I think I can hold my own in most situations tho' :) ) But frankly, this is getting a little frustrating. :(

My suggestions to play early war years or minor countries or mixed bag battles usually falls on deaf ears or the game goes 2-3 turns and he quits, claiming it's uninteresting.

I'm looking to the wise and friendly forum rats for two suggestions:

1) How can one establish a force that has a decent chance of standing toe-to-toe with late era US forces (Pershings, Pattons, Chaffees and M9 bazookas)? Any country will do.

2) How might I convince my friend that there is so much more to this game, and that many interesting battles can be fought throughout the represented countries and eras?

I don't want to stop playing him as he's a good friend and we've enjoyed PBEM ever since SP1. But I'm just tired of getting pounded by the 'super' US units anymore. It gets quite old. :rolleyes:

Any suggestions, please? :cool:



Goblin -> (5/18/2003 10:42:24 PM)

Dear Puzzled Pixel,

Tell him, firmly, that you are getting real bored with it. If that is all he wants to do, then you won't play. It sound harsh, but it is a game played for enjoyment. The same goes for his point of view. He may only enjoy that era and force selection, and that is fine too. You will not be able to convince someone to like something that they do not like, it is that simple.

Goblin Landers



Capt. Pixel -> Sound advice (5/18/2003 10:49:53 PM)

Yeah, that's good advice, Anne. :)

Perhaps I should insist that he join this forum and search for opponents who enjoy this form of abuse. (I know there are many of you out there. :p )

He's actually quite an accomplished SPWAW player, but this narrow view point of his is driving me nuts! :eek:



Tequila -> (5/19/2003 12:10:03 AM)

I'd tie him down and force him to play the mid '44 era where you play the Russians and you get 1.5-2x more points to play with. Then see how he feels dealing with swarms of T34/85, SU-100, IS-2 and he doesn't yet have the Pershing or Jumbo Sherman. :)

.



radboy223 -> (5/19/2003 1:18:20 AM)

Have you tried playing playing US vs. US? At least it would be more even. :D



Goblin -> (5/19/2003 2:26:26 AM)

Thats a good idea. hellcat and I had a late year game US versus US that was alot of fun. You could also get him to play the current version of H2H, him US and you SOV, and swarm him under with 70 or 80 T34-85's...

Goblin



Gary Tatro -> Capt P (5/19/2003 10:24:04 AM)

The russian OOB is actually a good match for post WWII. Next time the two of you finish a battle get his password and send the game over to me and I will take a look at what units he likes to use, and make some suggestions. Also give me some ideas on what he likes to do. Does he target your artillary? Things like that.

Maybe try limiting of artillary amount or size will do. The 8" gun is quite devistating and can be very demoralizing.

You can PM me if you like.



tracer -> (5/19/2003 11:02:17 AM)

Cap'n,
Maybe you should let him see the view from your seat: accept his 'standard' battle, but [I]you[/I] take the US. ;)



Capt. Pixel -> Exceellllent! (5/19/2003 11:06:30 AM)

I knew you guys would come through for me.

So, Gary, you think a H2H US vs SO might be a good comparable force? I think I'd concur as long as I can keep the visibility range fairly short and have him come at me in heavy cover.

The high values for Targetting, Range Finder and Stabilizer (particularly the Stabilizer) are where the biggest discrepancies lie. That US ability to make a substantial movement and then fire on-the-move really raises the bar on their overall effectiveness. It might be 'realistic', but it's a pain.

I think your recommendation of the T34/85s are a good choice mostly due to the higher rate of fire than the IS and ISUs. And the T34/85 has the punch to penetrate even a Patton's armor. Throw in a few OT34/85s to light up his day. I've actually had some success against the US with this approach. :D

We generally limit arty to 10% for many of the obvious reasons. :rolleyes: He's not generally that effective with his arty, but even a blind duck gets a junebug once in a while. :)

radboy223: A good suggestion for an evenly balanced game.

The sticky part of US vs US battles is either to establish some means of distinguishing between [I]his[/I] US VH flags and [I]my[/I] US VH flags or choose different base countries. This can get quite confusing in case of the former.

Choosing two different nations and then switching to the US Oob works to solve the identical VH flags problem. But then one player has the US National Characteristics advantage (like immediate artillery response) The way around that is to turn Nat'l Chars OFF. Oh, the hue and cry of unfairness will resound. :rolleyes:

I think Tequila's suggestion might have the most merit so far. I'm already trying to figure out how I'm gonna bamboozle him into [I]that[/I] situation. ;)

Perhaps the only way to resolve this is to insist that [I]I[/I] get a shot at running the US forces against him and he can have his 'turn in the barrel'. :D

Thanks for the responses, y'all. :cool:



Sonni -> Maus? (5/19/2003 1:58:33 PM)

Play as the germans, and set the time so that you can buy lot's of Maus -tanks, and drive your friend crazy with inpenetrable armor, one shot - one kill 12,8 cm cannon and finish it off with the secondary 7,5 cm. After that you could suggest him to play more realistic battles :)

this is what I would do.

Cheers,

- Sonni -



Tequila -> (5/19/2003 4:25:56 PM)

Actually if you play in mid '44 as I suggested you wouldn't even need a point advantage now that I think about it. The T34/85 is one of my favorite tanks because of how well rounded it is for the price. It has decent penetration power and excellent speed so if you can flank your enemy while pestering him with hordes of SU-57 then the T34/85 can punch a big hole from the sides and rear.

The SU-57 is one of my favorite pieces of Russian hardware along with the T34/85. It has good penetration for a 57mm ATG and the APCR rounds are very respectable at 10 hexes or less. Plus the 12.7mm MG on it carries a massive load of ammo making it an excellent anti-infantry piece once all the tanks are dead unlike the SU-85 and SU-100 which have no MG at all.



Lars -> Re: Exceellllent! (5/20/2003 5:08:53 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Capt. Pixel
[B]The sticky part of US vs US battles is either to establish some means of distinguishing between [I]his[/I] US VH flags and [I]my[/I] US VH flags or choose different base countries. This can get quite confusing in case of the former.

Choosing two different nations and then switching to the US Oob works to solve the identical VH flags problem. But then one player has the US National Characteristics advantage (like immediate artillery response) The way around that is to turn Nat'l Chars OFF. Oh, the hue and cry of unfairness will resound. :rolleyes:
[/B][/QUOTE]
Hi Capt.

I don't think this should be a problem. If one of uses U.S.M.C. and the "Nations" button, you should both benefit from the same characteristics and the VH flag problem shouldn't be a problem any longer. :)

Good luck
/Lars



Irinami -> Re: Re: Exceellllent! (5/20/2003 1:35:50 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lars
[B]Hi Capt.

I don't think this should be a problem. If one of uses U.S.M.C. and the "Nations" button, you should both benefit from the same characteristics and the VH flag problem shouldn't be a problem any longer. :)

Good luck
/Lars [/B][/QUOTE]

Make the USMC flag a Confederate flag too, just for effect.

--Irinami, who is a YANKEE at heart despite living below the Mason-Dixon.



MOTHER -> I THOUGHT IT WAS THE OLDER YOU GET THE WISER YOU GET PIX ! (5/20/2003 7:11:15 PM)

This "mate" of yours obviously like to play SPWAW [as you do yourself];try the mirrored setup. IE.same map ,same battle,2 games at once with the sides swapped.That way at least you keep a friend,you maintain your sanity and when he's a tad bored with his flogging well its up to game 2 where your still doing the flogging!.
Where I come from if a buddy [ for the americans out there] doesn't respect ,or apprieciate what you do for each other;in this case let him play with a 7 year old.Its a bigger issue than' I wanna' as far as I am concerned. :cool:Enough said or add a spwaw site called Dear Dorothy. :eek:



Raskolnikov -> Fight fire with (more) fire. (5/21/2003 7:55:11 AM)

M46 vs Centurion Mk III: Comparison

Survive: 6-6= 0
RoF: 6 - 5 = + 1
FC: 9 - 12 = -3
RF: 7 - 9 = -2
Hull: 107/73/72 - 128/68/52 = -19/+5/+20
Turret: 128/73/51 - 167/114/84 = -39/-41/-33
Other: 12/70 - 25/51 = -13/+19

90mm L53 M3 vs 20lb OQF: Comparison
Range: 208(200) - 213(200) = -5(0)
Acc: 96 - 140 = -46
WH: 5 - 5 = 0
Kill: 7 - 7 = 0
AP: 185(252) - 251(255) = -66(-3)

Cost: 225 - 255 = -30
(All H2H)

Not sure how readable all that is :o , but the moral appears to be:

[I]Fight him at range with a better gun, better targeting and [B]much, much better turret armour[/B].[/I]

Also, not unrealistic to take US Units in UK Army to fill the gaps in the OoB; but it would be unrealistic to take UK Units in US Army.

As no US-SO war was fought 1946-9, a UK-US war is, in some ways, no less realistic.

[I]E.g.: Newly elected Labour party decide to drop transatlantic alliance, becoming 'Armed Neutrals' in US-SO Cold War. Pressure on US to withdraw from European continent; tensions rise between UK-US gvts and also troops on the ground... [B]conflict.[/B][/I]

Not likely, but a good enough storyline to legitimise the breaking of M46s with those 20lbers.

Also... M46 has unusually weak top armour: extra vulnerable to air attack.;)

Rask.

Remember: an [U]M4[/U]6 is still an [U]M4[/U], and they are made for burning.:D



Irinami -> (5/21/2003 8:05:06 AM)

Wow!! :eek: That's a great comparison, Raskolnikov!



Raskolnikov -> (5/21/2003 8:13:19 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Irinami
[B]Wow!! :eek: That's a great comparison, Raskolnikov! [/B][/QUOTE]

:o

Thanks.



Goblin -> (5/21/2003 8:13:20 AM)

IrinamiIrinamiIrinamiIrinamiIrinamiIrinamiIrinami
IrinamiIrinamiIrinamiIrinamiIrinamiIrinamiIrinami
IrinamiIrinamiIrinamiIrinamiIrinamiIrinamiIrinami


Goblin- A Goblin baffles with copy/paste...:D



Irinami -> (5/21/2003 8:26:04 AM)

:eek: :confused: What could it MEEEAAANNN???? :eek: :confused:

Irinami states his masculinity backwards: I Man Iri.



Goblin -> (5/21/2003 8:28:51 AM)

It is a 21 Irinami salute.

Goblin- A Goblin explains the obvious...:D :p



Irinami -> (5/21/2003 8:43:16 AM)

Whoah, cool!!

...

How'd you know AC/DC was one of my fave's? ;) :D :p



Goblin -> (5/21/2003 8:46:02 AM)

I don't know what that means, Irinami...

I have had six beers in two hours, which makes me a little post-happy. They [I]seem[/I] like good ones at the time....:p

Goblin- A Goblin likes the 'American thighs' song...:p



arethusa -> (5/24/2003 3:57:14 AM)

Another suggestion would be to switch from meeting engagements with equal purchase points to assault engagements so you have either supperior purchase points to assault his post WWII defensive positions (set it low enough that he can't get overloaded in tanks) or make him assault you and create a map that makes it next to impossible for him to get at you with tanks.



arethusa -> Re: Maus? (5/24/2003 4:00:56 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sonni
[B]Play as the germans, and set the time so that you can buy lot's of Maus -tanks, and drive your friend crazy with inpenetrable armor, one shot - one kill 12,8 cm cannon and finish it off with the secondary 7,5 cm. After that you could suggest him to play more realistic battles :)

this is what I would do.

Cheers,

- Sonni - [/B][/QUOTE]
How do you do this? I've tried to set this up several times and even though I pick the time period for Mauspanzers, they're never available when I go to the unit selection.



rbrunsman -> (5/24/2003 4:35:13 AM)

Isn't the Maus hidden in the Norway OOBs?



Capt. Pixel -> Ooof! (5/25/2003 9:58:02 PM)

I'm seriously considering Panther Uhu's, platoons of 81 and 120mm mortars firing smoke and a visibility of 20. He'll never know what hit him. :mad:

Actually, the British Centurion Mk3 is looking pretty good as a stand-up opponent. Now, if I can get him to forego Artillery, Infantry and all vehicles that aren't fully-tracked, I might stand an even chance in an armor-vs-armor battle. :cool:



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