85mm KS-12 AA Gun (Full Version)

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RforRush -> 85mm KS-12 AA Gun (10/28/2017 7:35:09 PM)

85mm KS-12 AA Gun had similar capabilities to 88mm Flak18 AA Gun in real life, but in game first one is made couple times worse.

1. Accuracy of Flak18 is 270% higher for some reason.
2. Range of Flak18 is 250% higher, yet in real life KS-12 range was similar.

[image]https://i.imgur.com/eg15AZC.png[/image]

Or this whole thing is because Flak18 is used as anti-tank weapon and all german anti-tank guns have better accuracy?



Stelteck -> RE: 85mm KS-12 AA Gun (10/28/2017 11:33:01 PM)

The difference of range is interesting. (But i'am not sūre if the "range" is used for anti air purpose, maybe it is the ceiling, and range is only use in anti tank role).

A very important thing in a AA gun is the quality of the ammunition. (Able to detonate at a designated altitude with proximity fuze, while sending a cloud of sharpnel etc....).

I have no idea how ammunition compare between both. A lack of good proximity fuze soviet side could explain the low accuracy, althought i did not found any technical data upon the internet and so i do not know.






HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: 85mm KS-12 AA Gun (10/29/2017 1:08:11 AM)

This is some interesting read on the 85mm as an Anti tank weapon :)

http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2013/03/soviet-85-mm-guns-vs-tigers.html?m=1



RforRush -> RE: 85mm KS-12 AA Gun (10/29/2017 9:38:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck
A lack of good proximity fuze soviet side could explain the low accuracy, althought i did not found any technical data upon the internet and so i do not know.


I don't know how you can made bad proximity fuze, they were all equal. Only German bias can explain low accuracy.

Now considering range, the only theory I have is in real war German tanks had no magic shells for increased range and Soviet tanks could engage them at the same distance, but Soviet tanks rarely fired from large distance because of big ammo usage. Thus in the game German tanks have bigger range and bigger ammo use.

For accuracy I have no explanation besides German bias (and aryan scopes of course).

http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2013/05/accuracy-revisited.html

http://tankarchives.blogspot.ca/2013/02/accuracy.html



Omat -> RE: 85mm KS-12 AA Gun (10/29/2017 11:14:50 AM)

AFAIK

Range is only for ground combat
Ceilling is for AA

There are also some other vlaues which are included e.g.: ZF 20-E telescopic sight which could change the practical range.



Denniss -> RE: 85mm KS-12 AA Gun (10/29/2017 7:40:09 PM)

Range is alread increased for the upcoming Beta, AFAIR to 4500. Multiple large AA guns had either too short or too long ground range.
The accuracy shown is a combination of gun acc (in device) and installation acc (in ground element). The former represents the gun's ability to hit a given target (muzzle velocity, line of fire, dispersion) the latter the stability of firing platform, optics, integrated fire control system/guidance.
The device acc is on the high side for the german heavy flak and standard for most others - will have to look into this but any change will be after the next beta, acc reduction needs extensive testing.



bc17xm -> RE: 85mm KS-12 AA Gun (10/29/2017 10:53:20 PM)

Denniss, don't forget that one of the main reasons device acc is on the high side for the Germans...
SUPERIOR Quality German Optics!

The Nashorn was a beautiful example of this.
Paired the lightly armoured chassis with the Excellent 88mm gun and Quality German Optics that gave it a better than even chance of taking out an opponent before they even knew they were there.

Even today Quality Optics from Germany are preferred than Optics from other nations.

No need to reduce this!



Denniss -> RE: 85mm KS-12 AA Gun (10/30/2017 12:40:05 AM)

Optics do not belong to device accuracy but to ground element accuracy - the Flak has 150 points more device acc than the ballisticaly similar 8.8 of the Tiger. It has a lot of acc in the element to account for optics et al



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