[WAD] Aircrafts don't ignore damage (972.10) (Full Version)

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Grazyn -> [WAD] Aircrafts don't ignore damage (972.10) (11/2/2017 4:05:29 PM)

Aircrafts don't seem to obey the mission doctrine "ignore damage", and withdraw as soon as they have more than 10% damage. In the attached save, the bomber in the air is assigned to a bombing mission with doctrine set to "ignore damage", but if you use the editor to change its damage to 11% (or anything >10), it will immediately RTB. I thought this was only affecting planes which are assigned to a mission when already in the air, so I included a bomber on the ground as well. This bomber will also RTB if changed to 11% damage after take off.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/p0oo1mibrnan7vz/test%20dmg.save



mikmykWS -> RE: Aircrafts don't ignore damage (972.10) (11/2/2017 7:32:26 PM)

Added to the list. Thanks!

Mike



ComDev -> RE: Aircrafts don't ignore damage (972.10) (11/3/2017 8:02:37 PM)

I think this may be WAD, as the 'Ignore damage' setting only applies to Ships, subs and facilities?

In what cases would pilots ignore damage and press on with the attack?

Do we have any RL examples on this?

The built-in AI will go home with 30% damage on fighter aircraft, 50% damage on CAS aircraft, and 10% on all other types including bombers. Which is what you see, above.



Grazyn -> RE: Aircrafts don't ignore damage (972.10) (11/3/2017 10:25:45 PM)

I honestly didn't know it only applied to ships, I noticed it in the community scenario Peeling the Onion and was surprised to see my massive B-36 nuclear bombers abort the attack just in view of their target due to a meagre 10% damage. I admit I know nothing about real life cases, I just thought that I could tell them to ignore damage in extreme situations, like in the aforementioned scenario where SAC needs its first wave of nuclear bombers to push through and deliver their payload no matter the cost.

I think the 10% limit could very well apply to modern platforms but maybe not to late 40s-50s bombers which were kinda expected to press on through heavy resistance and not retreat at the first paint scratch, but this is turning into a feature request so I'm outta here. Thanks anwyay :)



ComDev -> RE: Aircrafts don't ignore damage (972.10) (11/3/2017 10:50:41 PM)

Hmmm yeah maybe the AI needs to be expanded somewhat, but would like to have any behaviour backed up by RL examples etc.

Guys?



c3k -> RE: Aircrafts don't ignore damage (972.10) (11/3/2017 11:30:37 PM)

B-17s could take some damage. As could P-47s. Once you get into the jet-age, damaged aircraft are rarely combat worthy...even if they remain air worthy. Which is rare enough.



thewood1 -> RE: Aircrafts don't ignore damage (972.10) (11/4/2017 12:11:19 AM)

B-17s could take damage and return home, but I bet the threshold was fairly low for continuing on as a combat effective unit. I would expect if they did continue on, it was for protection from its mates.



Cik -> RE: Aircrafts don't ignore damage (972.10) (11/4/2017 3:53:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy

I think this may be WAD, as the 'Ignore damage' setting only applies to Ships, subs and facilities?

In what cases would pilots ignore damage and press on with the attack?

Do we have any RL examples on this?

The built-in AI will go home with 30% damage on fighter aircraft, 50% damage on CAS aircraft, and 10% on all other types including bombers. Which is what you see, above.


B-52s damaged during the bombing of hanoi in '71 '72 were given "press on" orders. even with the loss of one engine (IIRC) they were supposed to push on to the drop point, drop and then go home as a group.

AFAIK it was also standard procedure not to fall out of a formation in WWII unless damage was so heavy to make flying at the altitude and speed of the pack impossible.



ComDev -> RE: Aircrafts don't ignore damage (972.10) (11/4/2017 6:28:13 AM)

Hmmm okay this will have to be added separately as an Air Ops doctrine setting.

What should the settings be?

Damage RTB threshold:
- Ignore damage
- Ignore damage if part of formation, otherwise 10/30/50
- 10/30/50%

Other?



Grazyn -> RE: Aircrafts don't ignore damage (972.10) (11/4/2017 7:57:07 AM)

Those settings seems spot on.

I'm trying to find RL doctrines for nuclear bombers during the early cold war in case of first/retaliatory strike, since we obviously lack actual combat situations, but from what I'm gathering it seems that it was generally acknowledged that their mission was likely going to be one-way, so I doubt they would've aborted for 10% damage and head back to their airbases which could had been destroyed by then, especially if already deep inside soviet territory and still able to reach their targets and deliver.

http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2017/October%202017/The-One-Way-Nuclear-Mission.aspx

quote:

“I felt it would be a one-way trip,” says Clyde Ketcham. “Even if not shot down, after flying through all the radioactivity, I don’t think we would have lived very long, and on most missions, we had very little fuel left and really no friendly places to go after the last target. I think most crew members held down at the very bottom of their soul [the thought] that God wouldn’t let this happen. That’s how I kept my sanity.”
Read more at http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/a-full-retaliatory-response-6909238/#my8WYpLgwcY3RlZk.99


We can already set a plane to ignore bingo fuel, ignore aerial refuelling and press on, which borders on suicidal, we may as well have a doctrine option to ignore damage too.



Cik -> RE: Aircrafts don't ignore damage (972.10) (11/4/2017 3:19:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Hmmm okay this will have to be added separately as an Air Ops doctrine setting.

What should the settings be?

Damage RTB threshold:
- Ignore damage
- Ignore damage if part of formation, otherwise 10/30/50
- 10/30/50%

Other?

one thing i'd like to be able to do is have planes auto-RTB on damage% of both themselves (falling out of any group they are a part of) and also the group. IE if the sum of the group's damage exceeds 50% they abort.

is that already a feature?



ComDev -> RE: Aircrafts don't ignore damage (972.10) (11/11/2017 8:45:33 AM)

Thanks guys, have added a separate ticket on this in the bug & feature tracker, will get back to it [8D]



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