RE: GT 5 Air War (Full Version)

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tyronec -> RE: GT 5 Air War (11/21/2017 4:58:53 PM)

quote:

I think the maximum is twenty that go to the Rumanians - and their version is shorter range and in Rumanian fighter groups with worse experience/morale.

So if fighters is a choke point you may prefer the 109E3s to fight in higher experienced and morale German fighter groups - and you would actively not want them to be exported. On the other hand if you think you will never have a shortage of fighters then you may as well have extra fighters for the Rumanians too.

Those that are not exported get converted to B109E-4B. And Bf109E-4B in turn get converted to Bf109E-7/U1 tac bombers. Given that sometimes you do not have enough tactical bombers, not having the extra Bf109E-7/U1s I usually think of as the greater loss.


Interesting to know, have never played far enough into the game for the 2nd conversion. My experience with the current Beta is that the U1s are not a lot of use.
The obscure detail in this game never ceases to amaze me...



Telemecus -> RE: GT 5 Air War (11/21/2017 5:05:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
Interesting to know, have never played far enough into the game for the 2nd conversion. My experience with the current Beta is that the U1s are not a lot of use.
The obscure detail in this game never ceases to amaze me...


Even if not played that far you can pull the details from the CSV files you can download for the scenario in the editor. They have a column in the aircraft file called "Import from" which covers both imports and conversions - so you can see all of them for the whole game there.

True about the U1s - just a question of leaving stuka groups half empty or having something extra to fill the production gaps (if that happens in your game). Given how much less the Axis has in the way of tac bombers even the bad ones are worth it for me.



tyronec -> RE: GT 5 Air War (11/21/2017 5:14:56 PM)

Thanks - was not aware of that.
Have mentioned this before but with the new Beta the Stukas are Dive Bombers and the same as before but the the other two are Tacs and have been seriously downgraded.



Grognard1812 -> Soviet Game Turn 6 (11/21/2017 11:39:44 PM)

Soviet Game Turn 6

A dangerous situation has developed in the Leningrad Sector as strong panzer forces have broken through the
outer defenses of the city, reaching the gates of Leningrad. The Soviet forces to the west of the panzer corridor
were retreated into the city to assist in its defense, leaving one unit in Pushkin as a rearguard to delay
the German advance. Forces to the East of the panzer corridor were retreated further east to protect the supply
routes going over Lake Ladoga. STAVKA sent their best leader, General Zhukov to take command of the defenses
of Leningrad and a high morale infantry unit was transported by boat into Leningrad to assist in its defense.
The Soviet army in Northern Finland was recalled to assist in the defense of Leningrad.

Leningrad sector at the end of Soviet game turn 6.

[image]local://upfiles/56401/78C48A39749941C98B39DE4BB4FE2CE6.jpg[/image]



Grognard1812 -> GT6 Air War (11/21/2017 11:54:45 PM)

Game Turn 6 Air War

The Soviet Air Force struck back on GT 6, attacking German ground units and Luftwaffe air bases in the
Leningrad sector. Although Soviet air loses were heavy on GT 6, the Luftwaffe lost 109 Messerschmitt fighters
this turn.



[image]local://upfiles/56401/D99BA178A75F45AAA9997A92242AF718.jpg[/image]



Grognard1812 -> RE: GT6 Air War (11/22/2017 12:03:55 AM)

The following was the most successful airfield attack mission of GT 6, where 14 fighters were
lost by the Luftwaffe.



[image]local://upfiles/56401/DF997491261E4C90AF05D83CB9856B9E.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: GT6 Air War (11/22/2017 12:41:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Grognard1812

The following was the most successful airfield attack mission of GT 6, where 14 fighters were
lost by the Luftwaffe.



[image]local://upfiles/56401/DF997491261E4C90AF05D83CB9856B9E.jpg[/image]


No offense to anyone and I mentioned this in other posts that the Germans can combat this but a different stance needs to be taken in their undertaking in the air war. At this rate German fighter losses will outpace replacements.



Twigster -> RE: GT6 Air War (11/22/2017 1:20:02 AM)

quote:

No offense to anyone and I mentioned this in other posts that the Germans can combat this but a different stance needs to be taken in their undertaking in the air war. At this rate German fighter losses will outpace replacements.


I am now starting to pay a very keen interest in the air war. I am watching closely how it goes in the various AARs. For example:

tyronec's fighter losses are approx. equal to mine so far, but we are two weeks ahead in our game. If Grognard continues his counter-force attacks for another two weeks, say, then tyronec's fighter losses could be considerably higher by an equivalent point in time. The difference is that thedoctorking is aggressively using his air force against my ground forces, only peripherally 'targeting' my air power. To be sure, though, fatigue is beginning to be a serious issue on my side in the air war, and I am not questioning my opponent's tactic- it is having its intended effect over time.



Twigster -> RE: GT6 Air War (11/22/2017 1:27:33 AM)

As stated elsewhere, it is fascinating to watch different strategies being played out, and their effects.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: GT6 Air War (11/22/2017 1:49:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Twigster

As stated elsewhere, it is fascinating to watch different strategies being played out, and their effects.


In my opinion being overly aggresive with German fighters is counter productive to the Germans.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: GT6 Air War (11/22/2017 1:57:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Twigster

As stated elsewhere, it is fascinating to watch different strategies being played out, and their effects.


In my opinion being overly aggresive with German fighters is counter productive to the Germans.


I wrote about this last year on what the Germans need to do to combat this. It is there if you want to read it.



tyronec -> RE: GT6 Air War (11/22/2017 6:46:56 AM)

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Twigster

As stated elsewhere, it is fascinating to watch different strategies being played out, and their effects.


In my opinion being overly aggresive with German fighters is counter productive to the Germans.


I wrote about this last year on what the Germans need to do to combat this. It is there if you want to read it.


I remember your writing about this but not how to combat it. The Germans can end their turn with low fatigue but the soviets can drive it up with enough ground bombing.



Twigster -> RE: GT6 Air War (11/22/2017 7:22:04 AM)

quote:

The Germans can end their turn with low fatigue but the soviets can drive it up with enough ground bombing.


Yep!



tyronec -> T7 (11/22/2017 1:31:30 PM)

T7.
STAVKA as retreated on all fronts so very little happened this turn and most of my movement is just following up to the Soviet front line.

AGN. We clear the one unit outside the city and conduct the first assault on Leningrad - which fails.
AGC, AGS. No combats. One division gets cut off in the Crimea.

Air war. STAVKA has had a good turn up north, getting 116 planes for 393. We do some bombing in the south and move the Luftwaffe down to AGC.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/3D6DA59CD1764731AA7CED015F44C3E5.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: GT6 Air War (11/22/2017 1:36:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Twigster

quote:

The Germans can end their turn with low fatigue but the soviets can drive it up with enough ground bombing.


Yep!


You can delimit with Air Settings. Germans have a sweet spot for their fighters & remember you don't need that many German fighters to wreak havoc on the Soviets. You need just enough to do lots of Damage. You just need to find that sweet spot by experimenting with the air settings ;-)



Twigster -> RE: GT6 Air War (11/22/2017 2:22:32 PM)

Got it, thanks. I looked for but could not find your post on it, but it made sense to me that adjusting air settings would be helpful.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: GT6 Air War (11/22/2017 4:25:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Twigster

Got it, thanks. I looked for but could not find your post on it, but it made sense to me that adjusting air settings would be helpful.


That post I'm afraid it is probably posted on someones AAR where I usually make my comments. I know it has been awhile since I talked about the German Air power until it has raised it head once again here recently. The German Fighter arm is a very powerful tool & when used correctly is "deadly". (again I'm not attacking anyones play style here since there are a ton of mitigating circumstances in the game that makes each one unique based on the player you are playing, what is necessarily correct in one game may not be correct in another)



tyronec -> RE: GT6 Air War (11/22/2017 6:21:45 PM)

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Twigster

quote:

The Germans can end their turn with low fatigue but the soviets can drive it up with enough ground bombing.


Yep!


You can delimit with Air Settings. Germans have a sweet spot for their fighters & remember you don't need that many German fighters to wreak havoc on the Soviets. You need just enough to do lots of Damage. You just need to find that sweet spot by experimenting with the air settings ;-)

_____________________________





If you care to post your suggested settings someone could give it a try, otherwise one might think you were having a joke.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: GT6 Air War (11/22/2017 6:31:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: Twigster

quote:

The Germans can end their turn with low fatigue but the soviets can drive it up with enough ground bombing.


Yep!


You can delimit with Air Settings. Germans have a sweet spot for their fighters & remember you don't need that many German fighters to wreak havoc on the Soviets. You need just enough to do lots of Damage. You just need to find that sweet spot by experimenting with the air settings ;-)

_____________________________





If you care to post your suggested settings someone could give it a try, otherwise one might think you were having a joke.


WoW, that was rude. I think I'm done here. Figure them out for yourself, that is how I did it.



Grognard1812 -> Soviet GT 7 (11/23/2017 11:35:35 AM)

Soviet GT 7

Preparing the defenses of Leningrad for a long siege. General Zhukov is in command of the 3 front line hexes, and
high morale units were placed there.



[image]local://upfiles/56401/3F2386D4C9CB4201971677E5F0A456C9.jpg[/image]



Grognard1812 -> RE: Soviet GT 7 (11/23/2017 11:39:46 AM)

Soviet defensive line at the end of GT 7 West of Moscow. 3 units were placed in each front line hex.



[image]local://upfiles/56401/668D57859C3643448B11C6FDEFA770A4.jpg[/image]



Grognard1812 -> GT 7 Air war (11/23/2017 11:50:12 AM)

The Air war was quiet on GT 7 as the Luftwaffe transferred all its air units out of the Leningrad area. Recon
shows that they have been transferred to air bases west of Moscow.

The Soviet Air Force has total air superiority over the Leningrad area. Bombing missions were done on German
ground units and on the Finnish air bases.



[image]local://upfiles/56401/000C35B6BF3246249BB0231BCB937DEF.jpg[/image]



Stelteck -> RE: Soviet GT 7 (11/23/2017 11:51:28 AM)

One advice (for both) : The difference between fortification level 2 (even 2.90) and fortification level 3 is really, really big, because fortification level 3 is dense terrain with combat efficiency of attacking tanks and vehicules halved.

Fortification level 3.01 is so much better than 2.99.




chaos45 -> RE: Soviet GT 7 (11/23/2017 1:53:09 PM)

interesting to see this play out---think the soviets are running to fast, unless the new axis supply rates are going to have a massive effect which I doubt. Why assault leningrad when they can just take the small ports in the north and isolate it?

Also that defense line is already extremely close to moscow for just getting to august.....alot of decent defensive ground given up without a fight.



topeverest -> RE: Soviet GT 7 (11/23/2017 4:27:58 PM)

Please don't have high expectations of the Leningrad defense. It is going to be German if they bring enough force.

Did you pay to put Zhukov in charge? If so I would recommend not spending heavily on commanders until you have built out your armies and SUs

good luck.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grognard1812

Soviet GT 7

Preparing the defenses of Leningrad for a long siege. General Zhukov is in command of the 3 front line hexes, and
high morale units were placed there.



[image]local://upfiles/56401/3F2386D4C9CB4201971677E5F0A456C9.jpg[/image]




topeverest -> RE: T7 (11/23/2017 4:29:07 PM)

I don't understand soviet strategy here. Seems to be giving up too much too quickly. And far too many troops in the south. Moscow is going to fall early without immediate soviet action.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

T7.
STAVKA as retreated on all fronts so very little happened this turn and most of my movement is just following up to the Soviet front line.

AGN. We clear the one unit outside the city and conduct the first assault on Leningrad - which fails.
AGC, AGS. No combats. One division gets cut off in the Crimea.

Air war. STAVKA has had a good turn up north, getting 116 planes for 393. We do some bombing in the south and move the Luftwaffe down to AGC.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/3D6DA59CD1764731AA7CED015F44C3E5.jpg[/image]




Twigster -> RE: Soviet GT 7 (11/23/2017 5:29:51 PM)

quote:

I don't understand soviet strategy here. Seems to be giving up too much too quickly. And far too many troops in the south. Moscow is going to fall early without immediate soviet action.


I too admit to being a little puzzled at the Soviet yielding so much ground uncontested here. Although, tyronec's opening envelopments were quite devastating.



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: Soviet GT 7 (11/23/2017 6:40:33 PM)

Judging from AARs there are few Soviet players who have decisively lost by running during the early turns 1941, but many who have lost by making a stand, especially vs. good Axis players.
In T7 the rail line in the center is close assuming an optimized rail strategy, same is true for infantry.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Soviet GT 7 (11/23/2017 7:39:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

Judging from AARs there are few Soviet players who have decisively lost by running during the early turns 1941, but many who have lost by making a stand, especially vs. good Axis players.
In T7 the rail line in the center is close assuming an optimized rail strategy, same is true for infantry.



Ya, this could get interesting quick around Moscow. Will take a turn or two for Tyronec to get in position but after that it will be hair raising for the Soviets.



chaos45 -> RE: Soviet GT 7 (11/23/2017 10:51:25 PM)

the problem is the soviets absolutely cannot hold any hex the Germans want to take in 1941....so all you can do is buy time and force the Germans to burn supply and MP.

Giving the germans 8 turns to slug 3-4 hexes to take moscow should be easy money for the Germans to take it before winter. Just my 2 cents. You really need to have the Germans down to 4 or fewer turns by the time they get close to moscow if you expect to hold it.



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