HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Destroying Soviet formations in First winter? (11/13/2017 12:38:33 PM)
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ORIGINAL: Nix77 quote:
ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain quote:
ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain quote:
ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain quote:
ORIGINAL: Dinglir I have just finished my first turn of first winter blizzard after the last patch was released. I was pretty surprised to find that I have actually destroyed a number of Soviet formations with localized counterattacks. Is this caused by the patch or has it been like this always (remember, I have never really played the Germans before, and I haven't suffered this as the Soviets)? I have attached a file showing one of the battle reports. Inexperienced units thrown in the front of my main line with Experience under 25 and no place to retreat too. I throw them out front for a reason. You should see when you open up turn 26 what I am doing. Basically I'm going for casualties to you. You also suffer higher loses when you do attack & I don't care about my loses as you see for turn 26 I also see that the bane of attacking German Regiments is to attack them with Russian tank Brigades. The tank brigades do awesome damage to them. and after the 3rd attack it is normally pro Soviet damage. But still if I attack the German Regiment with a Division it is basically murder by firing squad damage. So for now on those pesky regiments are getting fired up by Tank brigades and or Inf brigades which do like damage to those pesky German Regiments. I'm guessing the German regiments are good because of this: quote:
(v1.08.05) Reworked the fire penalty for large attacking forces, introduced in 1.04.28. It is no longer based on abstract stack points tied to unit's nominal size, but to the number of men in the attacking and defending forces. It is also applied evenly to all elements, instead of being partially random, and affecting elements firing at shorter ranges. When the ratio of attacking to defending men exceeds 3:1, the penalty will be applied. However, the ratio is affected by the strength of enemy fortifications and terrain. So it's possible to attack strong positions with more troops than enemy than in the open, and not suffer from the penalty. The actual formula is ROUNDDOWN(SQRT(MIN(1,mend*(fl+2)/mena)),2) where mend is the number of defending men, fl is fort level (including terrain bonus, equal to 1 in clear terrain with no fortifications), and mena is the number of attacking men. The resulting multiplier is never larger than 1, and is applied to the number of attacker's firing elements. On the other hand, when fort level will exceed 1 and the attackers will outnumber defenders, defending forces will be able to fire more times. The actual formula is ROUNDDOWN(MAX(1,SQRT(MIN(fl-1,mena/menb))),2). The resulting multiplier is never less than 1, and is applied to the number of defender's firing elements. These two multipliers work together to represent a few things. First, the diminishing returns when using overwhelming forces to accomplish an objective that could be achieved by using much less forces. Second, the bloodier nature of combat in defensible terrain and/or fortifications. Third, the higher effectiveness of smaller forces that are of better quality, which will be able to deal more damage when defending, and retain most (or all) of their strength when attacking. On the other hand (comparing to older rules) these multipliers will allow to attack with hordes of poor quality troops, and they will be able to deal some significant damage too, albeit suffering increased losses. Ammo restrictions apply as before, so elements won't be able to fire if they exhaust unit's ammo. However, usually only a fraction of elements gets to fire due to other multipliers that are applied, thus there are natural limits to how many elements will fire, even if the defender's multiplier will be large. In a sample battle where 109641 men attacked 22870 in clear terrain with level 5 fort, attacker's multiplier was 1.0 and defender's multiplier was 2.18. In another battle, where 52213 men attacked 8672 men in level 1.4 fort (level 1 and 40% of next level), attacker's multiplier was 0.85 and defender's multiplier was 1.18. So in the second battle the effectiveness of attacking elements was 85% and of defending elements 118%. Yes, I know about this but the question remains, "Why do German regiments/brigades inflict more casualties than a German Division when attacked by a larger force"? What makes them so special? Again maybe I'm missing something. Secondly, why such a "HUGE" loss of life to one side and not the other. Normally the small side takes next to nothing in losses. I know there are so many variables but when I have Guard Divisions with 55+ squad experience & morale take horrendous losses to a German Regiment it just doesnt seem right. But when same Soviet Guard Division attacks a German Division the casualties look correct. I'm no expert on these things & people smarter than I am on the rules and coding can fill me in. Until that time frame those German regiments/Brigades are getting molested by Soviet Tank Brigades/Soviet Rifle Brigades ;-)
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