Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (Full Version)

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Rusty1961 -> Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (11/16/2017 7:37:01 PM)

So for a couple of weeks the 255th Armd Bde. has been sitting in a major Indian City, in the same hex as it's parent HQ, Southern Command, with "upgrade on" and with plenty of units for upgrade (Grants, Stuarts, etc.,) in the pool. No upgrade. I even replaced the commmander thinking an high ADMIN rating would help. 30,000+ supplies present in same city.

It is 9/11/43

Ideas?



GetAssista -> RE: Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (11/16/2017 7:52:12 PM)

Are "=" signs present near the devices?
Do you look on the correct type of device? There are several types of Lee tanks, and Indian are not the same as Australian or US.



BBfanboy -> RE: Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (11/16/2017 9:49:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

So for a couple of weeks the 255th Armd Bde. has been sitting in a major Indian City, in the same hex as it's parent HQ, Southern Command, with "upgrade on" and with plenty of units for upgrade (Grants, Stuarts, etc.,) in the pool. No upgrade. I even replaced the commmander thinking an high ADMIN rating would help. 30,000+ supplies present in same city.

It is 9/11/43

Ideas?

Before a unit can take upgrades it must first upgrade the TOE, and to do this it must be in "Rest" mode.



Rusty1961 -> RE: Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (11/30/2017 5:02:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

So for a couple of weeks the 255th Armd Bde. has been sitting in a major Indian City, in the same hex as it's parent HQ, Southern Command, with "upgrade on" and with plenty of units for upgrade (Grants, Stuarts, etc.,) in the pool. No upgrade. I even replaced the commmander thinking an high ADMIN rating would help. 30,000+ supplies present in same city.

It is 9/11/43

Ideas?

Before a unit can take upgrades it must first upgrade the TOE, and to do this it must be in "Rest" mode.



How does one "Upgrade its TOE"??? I've tried putting the Bde in rest with the TOE button on so I can view it when I end the turn. I have all the appropriate squads and weapons in stock.

It is also in rest mode with the parent HQ (SOuthern Command) with a high Admin level.



btd64 -> RE: Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (11/30/2017 5:21:32 PM)

I've upgraded 1000's of units in Combat mode....GP



crsutton -> RE: Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (11/30/2017 5:51:53 PM)

Why don't you post a screen shot of the unit. and then a screen shot of you tank pools?



HansBolter -> RE: Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (11/30/2017 6:45:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

I've upgraded 1000's of units in Combat mode....GP


Same here.

It could be that it hasn't reached its TOE upgrade date.

When looking at the list of LCUs in a hex in the upper right corner is yellow text stating Show Soft.
This is a toggle to change the display that will depict all kinds of useful info the Show Hard screen does not including the number of days till a TOE upgrade for units that have them coming.

I'm in March of '44 in my game and my British armored brigades are upgrading nicely.



BBfanboy -> RE: Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (11/30/2017 9:48:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

So for a couple of weeks the 255th Armd Bde. has been sitting in a major Indian City, in the same hex as it's parent HQ, Southern Command, with "upgrade on" and with plenty of units for upgrade (Grants, Stuarts, etc.,) in the pool. No upgrade. I even replaced the commmander thinking an high ADMIN rating would help. 30,000+ supplies present in same city.

It is 9/11/43

Ideas?

Before a unit can take upgrades it must first upgrade the TOE, and to do this it must be in "Rest" mode.



How does one "Upgrade its TOE"??? I've tried putting the Bde in rest with the TOE button on so I can view it when I end the turn. I have all the appropriate squads and weapons in stock.

It is also in rest mode with the parent HQ (SOuthern Command) with a high Admin level.

The TOE must be available timewise, so after a given date you first put the unit in rest mode to get the TOE change and then after that you can draw whatever new devices the TOE gives you, subject to their availability. Just like ships can only upgrade after a given date. The TOE change date for LCUs is not shown on screen though. AFAIK you have to look in the editor to see when an LCU can get the new TOE.

EDIT: Hans explained how to find the TOE update info. I always wondered what the big numbers there were for. Some of the numbers represent the current %TOE for the unit if it is less than 100%.



HansBolter -> RE: Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (12/1/2017 10:49:09 AM)

The far right column is percentage of TOE. The column to the left of it is the number of days delay till the upgrade can happen.

If you hover the cursor over the column header text you get a fly out telling you what the column represents.

BBfanboy, I have never had to put a unit in rest mode for the TOE upgrade to happen. Just have to turn upgrades on.



scondon87 -> RE: Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (12/1/2017 11:13:54 AM)

Though it seems like the OP's issue is that the TOE isn't ready to upgrade yet, one of the stumbling blocks I seem to always trip over is proximity to a Command HQ (within it's radius). Makes it harder to give frontline units TOE upgrades on the fly!

Hans, IIRC the manual states that rest mode is a requirement (haven't looked it up recently, hopefully I didn't make this up). It's interesting that you've never had to do it. Maybe it isn't and I never tested that. Good to know!



Yakface -> RE: Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (12/1/2017 12:24:26 PM)

I think there is some confusion here. If this is stock scenario 1 then the 255 Armoured Brigade does not have a TOE Upgrade.

What people have written about resting within command radius is correct for a TOE upgrade, however the 255th has no TOE upgrade, so it will not help.

What Rusty is looking for is, therefore, merely a device upgrade. As others have written, this can be done in any mode.

IIRC where the device being upgraded is not a squad, you need 15% more devices in the pool than the earlier version in the unit. IE if you are upgrading 40 Improv. AFV(light) to Stuart I, you will need 46+ in the pool.




btd64 -> RE: Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (12/1/2017 12:27:49 PM)

I'll say it again, I've done both in Combat mode[;)]....GP



Yakface -> RE: Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (12/1/2017 12:34:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

I'll say it again, I've done both in Combat mode[;)]....GP


That's a bit worrying. There are a number of Allied units I don't want conducting a TOE upgrade, but will want to upgrade devices for. For example the 1st Burma Division (TOE Upgrade takes it from a Division sized unit to an understrength regiment). I figured if I never put it in rest mode then I wasn't going to have to suffer the downgrade.



BBfanboy -> RE: Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (12/1/2017 1:25:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

I'll say it again, I've done both in Combat mode[;)]....GP

Well that's a surprise to me - I don't ever recall seeing it and have often seen the TOE change announced when I put the unit in rest mode (in the next turn's ops report). I also thought I saw it written somewhere by one of the experts on the game play, but could not find anything in the manual other than "upgrades occur automatically and cannot be stopped" - which is not true since you can set "do not upgrade". Makes me think there have been changes during various patches, but I cannot recall anything offhand.

So if people are seeing it for sure then I guess Yakface will have to consider it a possibility and keep Burma Division in a low supply base! [8|]



Rusty1961 -> RE: Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (12/1/2017 4:46:16 PM)

I'm playing Scenario 28. I'm looking for the unit to upgrade its tanks to Grants and Stuarts. I thank all of you for your help, esp Hans for his TOE comments about what the numbers mean! Learn something every day.

Thank you!



Chris21wen -> RE: Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (12/2/2017 6:14:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

I've upgraded 1000's of units in Combat mode....GP


You can upgrade device yes but not it's TOE. It must be at rest, which means it cannot be in the same hex as an enemy unit, and in command range. Supply plays no part in a TOE upgrade but lack of supply or device will cause problems after the upgrade with any replacement.

I stress again I nave never been able to upgraded a TOE in any other mode but rest and I have tried.



Alfred -> RE: Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (12/2/2017 7:05:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yakface

quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

I'll say it again, I've done both in Combat mode[;)]....GP


That's a bit worrying. There are a number of Allied units I don't want conducting a TOE upgrade, but will want to upgrade devices for. For example the 1st Burma Division (TOE Upgrade takes it from a Division sized unit to an understrength regiment). I figured if I never put it in rest mode then I wasn't going to have to suffer the downgrade.


No need to worry. Continue doing what you have been doing.

Alfred



Alfred -> RE: Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (12/2/2017 7:29:21 AM)

On several occasions I have posted at length on the separate subjects of TOE and device upgrades.

Too many people much prefer to not bother reading what I post and instead prefer to rely on other commentaries which so often introduce inaccuracies.  I don't invent my posts, in fact I go to a great deal of trouble to find the source comments from devs which are usually widely spread throughout many different posts over a lengthy period of time.  Then I consolidate and rearrange into a logical sequence and explanation of the issue.

For a TOE upgrade to occur the LCU must be in rest mode.  The rest of the triggers can be found in my posts dealing with the issue.

For those who dispute this fact then dispute it with the dev who actually coded the requirement.  BigJ62 has on at least five separate occasions stated rest mode is required:

  • 20 Oct 2009
  • 13 Nov 2009
  • 14 Jan 2010
  • 15 April 2010
  • 8 June 2010


There is no patch note which discloses any change to this requirement.

Furthermore, on 20 Oct 2009, Andy Mac stated:

"Need to be in rest mode for TOE upgrade its a safety mechanim (sic) to stop it happening when you don't want it to."

Some on this thread have correctly noted that TOE and device upgrades are different.  It is easy for someone to not be paying full attention at the time an "upgrade" occurs and to subsequently misremember and confuse what actually transpired.  Any real documented instances of a TOE upgrade occurring without the unit being in rest mode are a prima facie bug as it would be clearly in contradiction of the Andy Mac quote.

Alfred



BBfanboy -> RE: Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (12/2/2017 3:29:16 PM)

Thank you Alfred, I was beginning to doubt what I had read.

To put it another way, a TOE is a LIST that says what the unit is authorized to have. The list changes to reflect the ability to draw different devices - an upgrade.
There is a date when that authority comes into effect.

At game start most units do not have all the devices their TOE authorizes so they draw their devices when they can (if drawing replacements is ON) which can be in any mode if the other conditions apply. Sometimes the devices in their at-start TOE are new devices they did not have before so they upgrade a device or fill out a previously empty slot. This is not getting a new TOE (LIST) it is getting authorized stuff to fill out the current TOE.



HansBolter -> RE: Upgrading the 255th Armd Bde to Grants, Stuarts??? (12/4/2017 11:54:05 AM)

Thanks for setting me straight Alfred. I was obviously confusing device upgrades with TOE upgrades.

Started examining units in my current game and discovered a plethora that had zero day delays for TOE upgrades and they all implemented on the next turn after setting the units to rest mode.

I did discover several British base units that I did not want to allow to upgrade as they would lose aviation support as a result.



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