The 75mm question (Full Version)

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FrankyVas -> The 75mm question (5/30/2001 4:31:00 AM)

How come when I fire my short 75mm gun (pzIV) at a range of 2 or less the explosions are bigger? Does this mean the gun did more damage? Frank V.




Belisarius -> (5/30/2001 6:39:00 AM)

Hmm...well, if kinetic energy has any significance with a short-barreled gun, I guess it makes more damage at short ranges. Anybody who actually knows? 'cause I don't :D




Flashfyre -> (5/30/2001 2:22:00 PM)

By "explosions are bigger", what exactly do you mean? The sound is louder? The shellhole created is bigger? The 7.5cm L/24 gun on the PzIV has a warhead size "4". The game uses one of three sound files (based on warhead size for tank guns), randomly choosing for each shot. The specific files for this gun are 378.wav-380.wav There is a difference in the sounds of each; the 380 files is a bit louder and deeper than the other two. Shellholes are another randomly chosen icon. Maybe the game is just picking the larger ones for you....




Jasper -> (5/30/2001 6:49:00 PM)

In real life, it is not true for AP round. The AP head need to travel a certain distance, like a 100 to 200 meter before the AP head can reach it velocity and become effective. However as it goes further it effectiveness drop too. Like wise HE or HEAT or sometime we refer to chemical round is different. It does not require the velocity to do so. The penetration is remain the same through the whole effective range. However at point blank u will be damaged too. Imagine a 152 mm gun firing a HE round at 50 m and hit the target. It 30 kg of explosive booom right infront u. Wow that must be hurting...... :D




murx -> (5/30/2001 7:40:00 PM)

The bigger explosions are for most guns at range 2 or less. Most of those guns that have at greater distances that single small white flashy explosion have at 2 or less hex the big brown explosions. Maybe this reflects the short ranged ammo that some guns had for close quarter fights. This short ranged ammo was a mixed high explosive and fragmentation warhead. murx




Bonzo -> (5/31/2001 7:35:00 AM)

Casper, I don't quite understand what you meant when you said
quote:

In real life, it is not true for AP round. The AP head need to travel a certain distance, like a 100 to 200 meter before the AP head can reach it velocity and become effective. However as it goes further it effectiveness drop too. (snip)
The maximum velocity for any projectile (except rocket assisted or similar powered rounds) will be at the muzzle of the barrel, as no further energy is being added once it is in free flight. From that point on, aerodynamic drag slows the projectile. A round may have some instability (wobble from uneven release of gas pressure at the muzzle or related to rate of spin of the projectile) that stabilizes a short distance into the flight or it might possibly leave the muzzle at such a high speed (to extend effective engagement range) that it needs to travel a ways and slow down to avoid having the shot shatter. Was this what you meant by the AP projectile "reaching its velocity"?




Mike Rothery -> (5/31/2001 10:35:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Casper: In real life, it is not true for AP round. The AP head need to travel a certain distance, like a 100 to 200 meter before the AP head can reach it velocity and become effective. However as it goes further it effectiveness drop too. Like wise HE or HEAT or sometime we refer to chemical round is different. It does not require the velocity to do so. The penetration is remain the same through the whole effective range. However at point blank u will be damaged too. Imagine a 152 mm gun firing a HE round at 50 m and hit the target. It 30 kg of explosive booom right infront u. Wow that must be hurting...... :D
huh? AP relies upon the kinetic energy effect of htting a target at the highest possible velocity, with the greatest mass at the smallest point of concentration (the pointy end). The shape of the projectile is a compromise between aerodynamic drag, in-flight stability and maximum mass. The faster it is going the more energy it contains. Therefore it has its best performance immediately upon finishing its accelaration, which if the gun is designed properly, should be immediately before leaving the barrel. From that point on its is losing energy due to friction and gravitational pull. APHE shares the same penetrative limitations of the AP round, but also contains a small HE charge to do more damage internally. HE is a more complex subject. Normally HE was nose contact fused, with or without delay. The delay lets it bury itself deeper before detonation for damaging dug-in position etc. The howitzer is the preferred delivery method so that the shell has a chance to fall inside the trenches and then detonate. HE fired in a flat trajectory is a pretty marginal weapon, ie when fired from tanks. It can take on buildings OK, and fire at things like trucks and artillery pieces, but is weak against entrenchments and infantry in the open. When you use HE in the direct fire role against infantry you have to hit the ground near them to get the shell to detonate, otherwise it will just whistle between them and keep going. Likewise with entrenchments the shells are likely to skip over the trenches and detonate behind.....its very unlikely that you would get one into the trench. HE shells also came in time fused varieties to acheive an airburst effect, but these were rarely used in tank guns. HEAT does not need much forward momentum to function, in fact the more the spin on the shell the less efficient the penetrating jet.




panda124c -> (6/5/2001 1:01:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by FrankyVas: How come when I fire my short 75mm gun (pzIV) at a range of 2 or less the explosions are bigger? Does this mean the gun did more damage? Frank V.
It's the grape shot. Lots of 9mm steel balls the bigest shotgun around. :D




monsternav -> (6/5/2001 10:33:00 AM)

As far as I can remember all SP games have done this. I don't know why.




Igor -> (6/5/2001 3:14:00 PM)

"It's the grape shot. Lots of 9mm steel balls the bigest shotgun around." Actually, that was the Yamato. They made a shotgun shell for the main guns, to be used for anti-aircraft work. It wasn't a very good idea; but the visions it conjures of the admiral on the bridge shouting "pull" to the guy with the three meter skeet launcher are amusing.




panda124c -> (6/6/2001 12:50:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Igor: "It's the grape shot. Lots of 9mm steel balls the bigest shotgun around." Actually, that was the Yamato. They made a shotgun shell for the main guns, to be used for anti-aircraft work. It wasn't a very good idea; but the visions it conjures of the admiral on the bridge shouting "pull" to the guy with the three meter skeet launcher are amusing.
The Germans had a 'canister' round for their 75mm's that used 9mm steel balls. Grape shot was used agains infantry at close range. From what I understand this was a common thing in most armies. I seem to remember that the 'shotgun' round used by Japan was employed at Guadacanal to shoot up the airfield. The wear on the gun barrels was excessive so the use was limited.




Paul Vebber -> (6/6/2001 1:11:00 AM)

There are 3 sounds for each weapon, many more are different than before, but none changes based on range (or should).




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