About artillery..a question (Full Version)

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ruxius -> About artillery..a question (5/31/2001 12:13:00 AM)

HI ..just a curiosity I can not answer by myself.. a) say F2)75mmFH fires indirect fire on hex 34,7 delay 1.1 ...in the old SP1 after a bombardement occurred , the same F2) can be ordered to keep fire in that hex for the next turn and this will cost 0 delay turns.. Now I am asking if this is still true in SPWAW5.1.. if this can not be perceived for artillery units with fast response..it may regard aircrafts which have longer delays.. Just to know if I have to forget about it :) b) C3) is a FO vehicle...he is in hex 12,12 looking at the battlefield..he gives orders for B menu in hexes where he has LOS..(so he gets direct fire and accuracy benefits..) AFTER having set the B missions..when out of the B menu (and during that same turn )he moves cause he feels it's in danger there... the question is : moving after a B menu does influence previous orders in the B menu ? will he loose its accuracy benefits cause now he has no more LOS with that hexes ? Does he have to stay in sight with the targeted hexes till the shells fall down ? Thank you for any answer..



Belisarius -> (5/31/2001 12:25:00 AM)

Maybe something for the more experienced players, but on a) I'd say, yes you do get a faster response for keeping fire in the same hex, usually 0.1 turns (from what I have experienced). I don't know if FO's are needed, but it doesn't seem like it. I'll pass on b) ;)



ruxius -> (5/31/2001 12:49:00 AM)

Thank you Great Justinian's General.. (tell me e'thing you know about his battles against the Goths ) I saw a difference only depending on the caller..as written in the manual a FO cut drastically delays..they now have a very interesting role such way..I like them..they make your artillery seem more 'real'.. anyway every help is appreciated...



bchapman -> (5/31/2001 2:05:00 AM)

Here is what it says about spotting in the ver. 5 Manual
quote:

The accuracy of indirect fire will depend greatly on the Artillery skill rating of the unit calling in the bombardment, as well as whether the spotter can actually see the target hex. Unobserved fire will tend to scatter outside the target hex and will be less effective in general. Forward Observer units usually are the best for calling in fire. Note that if the target is unobserved, even if the rounds appear to be landing in the correct hex, you don’t know exactly where they are landing. So even if the fire appears accurate, it may not be doing any real damage. Pressing the “F” key or left-clicking on the Current/Spotter Unit button jumps the view to the unit acting as a spotter. You can also zoom the view with the Zoom buttons, and return to the Tactical Screen with the Exit button. Note that with Command and Control on, a Forward Observer can only direct the fire of a number of units equal to his remaining orders.
:D



Silvarius -> (5/31/2001 2:08:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by ruxius: HI ..just a curiosity I can not answer by myself.. b) C3) is a FO vehicle...he is in hex 12,12 looking at the battlefield..he gives orders for B menu in hexes where he has LOS..(so he gets direct fire and accuracy benefits..) AFTER having set the B missions..when out of the B menu (and during that same turn )he moves cause he feels it's in danger there... the question is : moving after a B menu does influence previous orders in the B menu ? will he loose its accuracy benefits cause now he has no more LOS with that hexes ? Does he have to stay in sight with the targeted hexes till the shells fall down ? Thank you for any answer..
To benefit from the LOS bonus, you must have LOS on the target when the shells are falling, and not when you order the arty mission. That's why I never take any FO vehicule. You cannot stay in LOS of an opponent without being blasted. I prefer foot FO, mounted on a small vehicle. They can dismount, then sneek to the front line and order fire mission without being spotted. Silvarius.



john g -> (5/31/2001 2:20:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by ruxius: HI ..just a curiosity I can not answer by myself.. a) say F2)75mmFH fires indirect fire on hex 34,7 delay 1.1 ...in the old SP1 after a bombardement occurred , the same F2) can be ordered to keep fire in that hex for the next turn and this will cost 0 delay turns.. Now I am asking if this is still true in SPWAW5.1.. if this can not be perceived for artillery units with fast response..it may regard aircrafts which have longer delays.. Just to know if I have to forget about it :)
From my observations, calling fire to a preregistered hex .1 turn delay Shifting fire from a hex already hit or a preregistered hex .3 turn delay American FO calling in artillery anywhere .1 turn delay. Keeping a unit firing at same hex - it depends. Same FO, same hex .1 turn but if you run out of orders and have to switch fo's then it seems to act as a new mission. thanks, John.



Belisarius -> (5/31/2001 2:52:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by ruxius: Thank you Great Justinian's General.. (tell me e'thing you know about his battles against the Goths )
I know a bit; Born in Illyria in 505 A.D., Belisarius was largely responsible for the expansion of the Byzantine Empire under Justinian I (and also for keeping the Eastern Empire from being overthrown), and is probably one of the greatest generals in history. He fought the Persians in 530, where (amongst others), he defeated a Persian army outnumbering his own by many times. After suppressing the Nika riot and defeating the Vandals in North Africa (he also sacked Carthage), he was given command of an expedition to take Italy back from the Ostrogoths in 535 A.D. He took Rome and Naples in 536, but then had a conflict with the general Narses, who was sent to aid him in 538. Their argument over authority delayed the campaign, but he captured Milan and Ravenna in 540. After that he was sent to battle against the king of Persia, Khosrow I, but the campaign was largely indecisive. He returned to Italy in 544 to take on the Goths, then commanded by Totila, last king of the Ostrogoths. The Goths had conquered Naples in 543 and Rome in 546. He managed to recapture Rome from the Goths in 547. His success made him enemies, though, and because of the jeaolusy of Emperor Justinian I, he was called back in 548. Rome fell back into the hands of the Goths in 550. After Belisarius' return to Constantinople, Narses was sent to Italy with a good army, and defeated Totila in 552 and became prefect of Italy. He was unpopular though, and was recalled by Justin II. As for Belisarius, he went back into service in 559 to repel the Bulgarians who were harassing Constantinople, where he was successful. Later he was charged with conspiracy and imprisoned, but the charges were dropped. He died in 565.



ruxius -> (5/31/2001 3:24:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by john g: ....as well as whether the spotter can actually see the target hex.
Please forgive my lacks in english..(I come from another country) : the key word is 'actually'...what is written in the manual there and after there , can be differently understood if that actual refers to the moment of spotting for the Observer or when shells fall down.It depends on which moment it refers to ... It can also be ambiguous as it may refer to every unit currently looking at the area at that moment..
quote:

Unobserved fire will tend to scatter outside the target hex and will be less effective in general. Note that if the target is unobserved, even if the rounds appear to be landing in the correct hex, you don’t know exactly where they are landing. So even if the fire appears accurate, it may not be doing any real damage.
This may be interpreted as 1)the same unit who called for artillery have to keep it's LOS to the target hex to have efficiency in fire.. or 2) take whatever unit and make her to look there....3) if you make a B order where you can't see than expect that..
quote:

Pressing the “F” key or left-clicking on the Current/Spotter Unit button jumps the view to the unit acting as a spotter. You can also zoom the view with the Zoom buttons, and return to the Tactical Screen with the Exit button.
This part seems to confirm doubts as it may refer to the spotting phase..
quote:

To benefit from the LOS bonus, you must have LOS on the target when the shells are falling, and not when you order the arty mission.
This answer from Silvarius gives me a precise answer but it seems to be derived more from a good experience than from a game issue As I have true respect for your comments and (I thank you for partecipating to my doubt )please let me clear that I am persuated you are right about the point..I only would like only to be sure at 100% because it seems to me that it can be misunderstood by foreign people..
quote:

Originally posted by john g: From my observations, calling fire to a preregistered hex .1 turn delay Shifting fire from a hex already hit or a preregistered hex .3 turn delay American FO calling in artillery anywhere .1 turn delay. Keeping a unit firing at same hex - it depends. Same FO, same hex .1 turn but if you run out of orders and have to switch fo's then it seems to act as a new mission.
This answer definitively clears my doubts about point a) Thank you mister.. [ May 30, 2001: Message edited by: ruxius ]



Resisti -> (5/31/2001 3:57:00 AM)

Francesco, i dubbi sul punto b) te li chiarisco io: chi chiama l'artiglieria deve avere una "clear LOS" dell'esagono bersaglio al momento che l'artiglieria arriva,per benificiare dei vantaggi di cui sopra. Saluti.



ruxius -> (5/31/2001 5:04:00 AM)

Oh Ciao Federico , che piacere risentirti.. beh ci credo , alla fine sarà come dici tu(anche se non è molto logico..) ...è da dove deriva questa 'conoscenza' che sto cercando di approfondire..trovo il passo del manuale un po' ambiguo su questo punto..molti poi sembrano straconvinti del fatto solo perchè sembra così nella pratica.. Well, this is an answer to my italian colleague ..I am only trying to find more precisely about this rule...



Flashfyre -> (5/31/2001 9:35:00 PM)

To clarify the rulings a bit: Artillery accuracy is dependent on the Command Artillery rating and LOS of the unit which orders the fire mission. If the observer has no LOS to the requested target hex when the bombardment falls, accuracy is degraded. I tested this once, and it works. An FO that can see the target hex during the bombardment results in the rounds tightly grouped in the area; drift is limited to one or two hexes. That same FO, with no LOS during the bombardment, resulted in widely scattered shell placement; up to 5 hexes away from the intended target hex. This occurs even if the FO had LOS during the initial phase of the mission, but lost it (due to movement, retreat, or obstructions like smoke) before the mission finished the next turn. In this case, the first rounds landed "on target", while succeeding rounds scattered. Artillery. When you care enough to send the very best.



ruxius -> (5/31/2001 9:54:00 PM)

Ok guys , I can say I received enough confirmations and according to what Flashfyre has TESTED I can make myself definitively persuated about my last point with doubts !! Thanks to all of you boys for your patience..I wanted to know it as it's necessary for my best usage ! AH and Belisarius..you know almost all about that General...I am admired by your knowledge about him...thank you very much for your story..I was born in Rome and as you can easily imagine I studied with interest the attempting of restoring the Roman Empire divided in the two parts..if you know about details of his battles send me everthing you can..my best dream would be to create a game SPWAW-like in that period..only a dream actually for me.. Anyway using his name you gained my 'respect' in history ;) If you are interested in any scenario to be played cooperative tell me , we will fight side by side against the enemy ! Ave ! [ May 31, 2001: Message edited by: ruxius ]



Belisarius -> (6/1/2001 6:03:00 PM)

Heheh, thanx Ruxius :D About Belisarius, there seems to be a lot more info about his enterprises in North Africa and Middle East than his campaigns against the Ostrogoths. But I'm looking for that, it interests me as well ;) I'll keep you posted whenever I find material about it. OK, it'd be fun to hook up for cooperative play in a scenario. I'm a bit busy during the EU summit here 'til the end of June, but I'll be around. Ave!



ruxius -> (6/1/2001 7:11:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Belisarius: [QB] I'll keep you posted whenever I find material about it.
Well agreement is signed ! as a symbolic gift I will send you a gif of an important city of that period ;)
quote:

OK, it'd be fun to hook up for cooperative play in a scenario. the EU summit here 'til the end of June, but I'll be around.
Good General..you will enjoy it very much ,believe me !! so we agree : first 10 days of July..I take care of your address...you will receive news from me around that day (I too will be very busy with my University till that day..and actually for the D_D tournament..)



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