First turn to get guard promotions? (Full Version)

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Kantti -> First turn to get guard promotions? (12/15/2017 8:00:58 AM)

Hi! What is first turn when Soviet player can get guards divisions? Just asking as I have on turn 5 3 divisions with 8-1 win record and would love to know how long I have to protect them from encirclement before they convert to guards.



56ajax -> RE: First turn to get guard promotions? (12/15/2017 9:05:38 AM)

The rule strains my brain but I believe it is

In order for a unit to become a guards unit, the three following conditions must be met:
Condition One:

 For non-motorized units, the unit’s number of wins plus the year modifier must be greater or
equal to 8 plus random(8).(see glossary for definition of random(x))
 For motorized units, the unit's number of wins plus the year modifier must be greater or equal
to 12 plus random(12)
 For Corps HQ units, the unit's number of wins plus the year modifier must be greater or equal
to 15 plus random(15)
 For Army HQ units, the unit's number of wins plus the year modifier must be greater or equal to
75 plus random(75)
Condition Two:
 For all units, the unit's number of wins plus the year modifier must be greater than 9
Condition Three:
 For all units, the unit's number of wins plus the year modifier must be greater than 2 plus the
unit's number of losses
Year Modifier: The Year modifier is 3 in 1941, 2 in 1942 and 1 in 1943-45.

PS : Good Luck with that



Nix77 -> RE: First turn to get guard promotions? (12/15/2017 10:26:29 AM)

I think there's a hard turn limit too, just can't find it from the manual. If anyone has seen Guards appear before September (turn 12), please let us know :D

Historically the first Guards Divisions were formed in September so it'd make sense to set the limit there.

Question to Morvael: could the Guards limits be made more gradual, ie. not suddendly bumping from 5% guards to 10% guards in January 1942? It's a busy New Year's Eve for good ol' Josef, handing out Guards' Badges for 100000+ riflemen!

Historical Guards division milestones:
10th Guards RD - Dec '41
20th Guards RD - Mar '42
30th Guards RD - May '42
40th Guards RD - Aug '42
50th Guards RD - Nov '42
60th Guards RD - Jan '43

Current limits:
5% => 15 divisions - Sep-Dec '41
10% => 30-40 divisions - Jan-Jun '42
17% => 60+ divisions - Jul '42 =>

Gradual percentage change would make the forming more historical, and perhaps more enjoyable when the units receive the status after actually achieving the victories. Start with 2% in Septempber '41 and grow it 0-2% per month from there?



No idea -> RE: First turn to get guard promotions? (12/15/2017 11:24:31 AM)

I think you cant get them before Sept. 1941



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: First turn to get guard promotions? (12/15/2017 2:35:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: No idea

I think you cant get them before Sept. 1941


If you can then I have never gotten them before Sept 41.



SparkleyTits -> RE: First turn to get guard promotions? (12/15/2017 3:44:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nix77

Gradual percentage change would make the forming more historical, and perhaps more enjoyable when the units receive the status after actually achieving the victories. Start with 2% in Septempber '41 and grow it 0-2% per month from there?


I think some kind of gradual increase would be a great idea



Dreamslayer -> RE: First turn to get guard promotions? (12/15/2017 4:10:35 PM)

Historically first divisons gain guard status on 18 September,1941.
It was 4 Rifle divisions for the Battle of Smolensk.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: First turn to get guard promotions? (12/15/2017 5:29:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dreamslayer

Historically first divisons gain guard status on 18 September,1941.
It was 4 Rifle divisions for the Battle of Smolensk.


I thought it was the 100th Division that received the 1st Guard designation :). Going to have to go look it up now what the other 3 were ;-)



Dreamslayer -> RE: First turn to get guard promotions? (12/15/2017 6:46:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


Historically first divisons gain guard status on 18 September,1941.

I thought it was the 100th Division that received the 1st Guard designation :). Going to have to go look it up now what the other 3 were ;-)

By NKO Order #308 ,18 Sep 1941 (text in russian):
100th => 1st Gd
127th => 2nd Gd
153th => 3rd Gd
161th => 4th Gd






56ajax -> RE: First turn to get guard promotions? (12/16/2017 12:47:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: No idea

I think you cant get them before Sept. 1941

Well if you look at the rule and if you assume a unit on average only has one win per turn then it is 11 weeks before the first Guards can appear so, yes sometime in September...



Kantti -> RE: First turn to get guard promotions? (12/16/2017 7:39:32 AM)

But as said, I am wondering if there is hard coded date limit or is it possible to get guards earlier. Just asking as I had 3 division stack that withstood 8 desperate hasty attacks (would have enabled bit kessel, so I understand why the attacks. Odds weren't that bad, but I had Zhukov in place) and now have 9-1 and 8-1 win ratios on turn 5. When just reading the rules, it would seem that as soon as random is 1-4, they'd get promoted IF there is no date limit.



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