War in China - start of GC

War in China - start of GC (Full Version)

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AndriahBlashkovich -> War in China - start of GC (12/15/2017 5:47:22 PM)
So, a few days ago, I decided I'll tackle something I have been postponing for a while - actually starting the GC in WiTP against AI as Japan (I've only had time and focus to play smaller scenarios before) While I did my research and sorted out the economy (I think), one thing that's giving me a ton of issues, or rather things to think about is the three pronged counter-offensive the mainland Chinese forces have mounted against me - in Ichang, Canton and Hankow - their combined assault power seems to be way over anything I have on the field, and when I take into account required garissons, the situation seems pretty bleak. Is there something I'm unaware of, cause the only two options that seem viable are either pulling back towards the chinese coast and consolidating the forces there, or pulling forces I've intended for Sumatra and Java invasions to be tied down in mainland China instead - both being equally bad.

Aurorus -> RE: War in China - start of GC (12/15/2017 9:00:50 PM)
Chinese units perform very poorly, owing to poor leadership, morale, experience, and weak ToEs. In good terrain, one Japanese division can hold off 6 or 7 Chinese corps. In a game against the AI, you should be able to conquer the whole of China by early 1943, including Chungking. One of the major problems with the AI is that it can only be scripted to assemble assets and move on objectives. While this works reasonably well for the air, naval, and amphibious war, it is not effective in the ground war. The AI will makes big stake and pile all of its units into one hex, making no effort to cover its flanks and paying no heed to terrain. Simply isolate the AI's big stacks by creating a classic line, or front, and then destroy it once its supply is reduced. A Chinese stack, no matter the size, without supply is combat ineffective: completely.

Yaab -> RE: War in China - start of GC (12/16/2017 6:56:09 AM)
AndriahBlashkovich, you have several advantages over the Chinese in China. 1.Organic field artillery in Japanese div/bde. Chinese have few field guns and mortars in thier units. Their guns/mortar production is abyssmal. Once you destroy their arty, the Chinese cannot replace it. On the other hand, Jap divs are stuffed with field arty. 2.Light bombers. Set them at 2000 feet Ground attack so they utilise thier Grnd Skill and watch how the Chinese get disabled in Clear hexes. Once disabled, they cannot repair their squads easily. Watch them die in combat due to your field arty fire. 3.Armored units. Chinese units can only beat those with huge AV ratios. 4.Better leaders. Chinese leaders have nothing on your samurai.

GetAssista -> RE: War in China - start of GC (12/16/2017 9:03:27 AM)
I, for one, welcome our old aggressive Chineses AI. Well, not really.. I think Chinese AI would be so much better with less aggression and more defensive focus. Like, look, this is 4x defensive terrain you are attacking, are you really sure?? Currrently it is too easy to bleed the hordes in good defensive terrain, then encircle and starve them or drive over with tanks. Sometimes I would even postpone the encirclement so that them continue their hopeless attacks a bit longer expending supply and men.

Mundy -> RE: War in China - start of GC (12/16/2017 1:18:38 PM)
From my experience, purging all the leadership even with someone marginally better will make a difference for the Chinese.

AndriahBlashkovich -> RE: War in China - start of GC (12/16/2017 6:56:04 PM)
Wow, thanks for the quick reply, guys and thanks for all the advice. I was aware the War In China would be a bloody and attrition packed war, but I hadn't understood the odds are in Japan's favour in game [:D] gives the orders to stop the evacuation of Ichang quote: From my experience, purging all the leadership even with someone marginally better will make a difference for the Chinese. From your expe... Is that you, Josif Visarionovich? [:D]

Kursk1943 -> RE: War in China - start of GC (12/17/2017 4:24:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AndriahBlashkovich Wow, thanks for the quick reply, guys and thanks for all the advice. I was aware the War In China would be a bloody and attrition packed war, but I hadn't understood the odds are in Japan's favour in game [:D] gives the orders to stop the evacuation of Ichang quote: From my experience, purging all the leadership even with someone marginally better will make a difference for the Chinese. From your expe... Is that you, Josif Visarionovich? [:D] [sm=happy0065.gif][sm=happy0065.gif][sm=happy0065.gif][sm=happy0065.gif][sm=happy0065.gif]

GetAssista -> RE: War in China - start of GC (12/19/2017 11:58:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AndriahBlashkovich gives the orders to stop the evacuation of Ichang But you should. There is nothing of worth in Ichang, meaning it does not produce supply that you have to deny to the Chinese, and it idoes not block any important route. Terrain though is flat x1 so harder to defend against the initial push. Let them have it

Yaab -> RE: War in China - start of GC (12/20/2017 11:43:58 AM)
Vacating Ichang means the Chinese will take the city with its INTACT fortification level 3.

Alfred -> RE: War in China - start of GC (12/20/2017 4:05:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yaab Vacating Ichang means the Chinese will take the city with its INTACT fortification level 3. Not in itself a relevant consideration. Whether a base should be kept or abandoned should never be decided on the basis of fortification levels. Alfred

rustysi -> RE: War in China - start of GC (12/21/2017 6:09:48 PM)
It does threaten Hankow(?) (the dense city three hexes away). Just getting some Chinese troops in there means Japan losses its resource output and those Chinese troops are in terrain from which it'll be difficult to remove them. This also threatens a major Japanese LOC. JMHO. YMMV.

cplprice -> RE: War in China - start of GC (1/27/2018 10:38:52 PM)
Historically, the Chinese committed 71 Divisions to the capture of Ichang/Yichang in September/October 1941 and while they managed to isolate the garrison for ten days, a relief column with forces from the attack on Changsha broke the siege. The Japanese tried several times(1939-'41-'42-'44)to take Changsha, each time but the last failing with significant losses. The Japanese would push toward the city, the Chinese would outflank and cut the Japanese supply lines, the Japanese would fight their way out. Time after time the Chinese employed the same tactic, fall back in the face of superior Japanese forces, work around their flank and cut their supply, then when the advance stalled due to lack of supply, counter attack. When I play the game as the Japanese I play like I was fighting against the historical Chinese and place a premium on shoring up my supply lines. I keep Ichang, fortify it, move some additional artillery there, stockpile supply, and move land based bombers to Hankow and Wuchang. I garrison my supply line from Hankow to Ichang. When the Chinese keep coming at it artillery and air decimate them. I use the air units at Hankow and Wuchang to train up bomber crews and rotate pilots in and out regularly. Hankow is easily supplied by water from Shanghai(the Yangtze)using small freighters that aren't really useful for much else. They transport supply up and bring resources back. I don't try to take Changsha, I let the Chinese have it, but push out one hex to the west, and southwest from Wuchang and the hex northwest of Nanchang so I have a secure perimeter and open supply line to Nanchang. I also push out northeast from Hankow to secure supply to Sinyang another location the Chinese try hard to take. These locations act like a sump and attract Chinese units where I can train up less experienced units and air crews. You can try and replicate the Ichi-Go offensive of 1944 and clear China, but I don't. I clear the rail lines so I can rapidly move troops when necessary and create a buffer zone(one hex)around important locations, but generally leave the countryside to the Chinese.

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