Thinking of trying TOAW - need some advice... (Full Version)

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nhill40 -> Thinking of trying TOAW - need some advice... (1/27/2018 4:44:51 PM)

Hi - I have had the itch to get back into some operational wargaming and have had TOAW on my radar for a very long time, but never dove in. In my wargaming background, I've played the daylights out of pretty much the entire Close Combat series as well as extensive time in SSG's Battles in Normandy and Battles in Italy. I've also dabbled a bit with some traditional boardgaming - like Clash of Giants II (GMT game covering 1st Ypres and Galicia) - but not really my thing (too much manual bookkeeping and lack of human opponents to make boardgaming feasible for me). So, I'm not a hardcore grognard by any means, but I'm also not completely naive as to "what it's all about" when it comes to wargaming.

Since getting the itch, I've evaluated multiple operational-level titles (including watching quite a few TOAW videos). The most serious evaluation I've done though has been playing around in a few Panzer Campaign's demos (the John Tiller series). They are very impressive games - exquisitely researched and very thoroughly modeled - and the experience has reaffirmed that I definitely enjoy the operational level "sweet spot"...but there is something with the gameplay mechanics that doesn't quite click for me - just a bit too fiddly. I'm not totally naive, as I know there is a certain level of tedium inherent in any wargaming, perhaps especially so at the operational level (a lot of unglamorous counter-shuffling often goes into bringing a glorious plan to life).

Does anyone have any experience with both TOAW and the Panzer Campaigns (or perhaps other JTS titles) that could do a compare/contrast? Obviously, there are things that TOAW models that PzC doesn't touch (and vice versa), but what is the overall "feel" like between the two?

Also, another (more concrete) question I've had - one of the big appeals of TOAW seems to me to be the variety of scenarios (in both setting and scale)...but many of those scenarios are quite aged. As a general rule, how well do those older scenarios work against the latest game engine? As long as you read the scenario notes for any recommended tweaks to optional rules, can you pretty much still play most of them, or do a lot of them go haywire?





devoncop -> RE: Thinking of trying TOAW - need some advice... (1/27/2018 5:51:03 PM)

Hi

I have a very similar background to yourself in the sense of a small amount of experience with Panzer Campaigns....Sicily 43 and Smolensk 41. I never played any of the TOAW previous iterations but thanks to Warspite's original beginner AAR of the Campaign for North Africa I jumped in. (I recommend reading that AAR by the way).

The UI in the Panzer Campaign series is to my mind very fiddly and the icons are difficult to see to do various actions. I find TOAW IV not a perfect UI but much more intuitive to my mind. It is also extremely flexible so you choose the options you like to see on counters and the map and they are easy to flip during the game.

What is excellent and immersive is the beginning of turn historical record of events as territory changes hand and the way you can examine each clash and check how many units were lost down to individual trucks,mortar squads,Panzers etc...

It has completely won me over and even the initially intimidating timestamp and the using up of time within a turn now is both understandable and sensible.

I know I am making mistakes but the more I learn the more about the game design I appreciate.

Hope that helps.

Go for it !




cantona2 -> RE: Thinking of trying TOAW - need some advice... (1/27/2018 5:52:23 PM)

Nhill I have played both Panzer Campaigns and TOAW extensively (both a constant presence in the HDD) and though Panzer Campaigns offer great historical accuracy and when paired with Volcanos mods they make for a supreme wargaming experience on the PC. The drawback is that each game focus on a battle or campaign only. TOAW has the flexibility to cover many different eras of warfare and the amount of user made scenarios out there is huge (even looking at the AAR section that is not immediately apparent)! I cannot recommend TOAW enough



nhill40 -> RE: Thinking of trying TOAW - need some advice... (1/28/2018 3:23:11 AM)

Thank you for the advice!

Does anyone know if the out of the box scenarios are pretty good about telling you if, for example, high supply needs to be enabled? The thought I could get hours into a scenario before noticing something from an optional rule perspective was out of whack really stresses me out! [:'(]



devoncop -> RE: Thinking of trying TOAW - need some advice... (1/28/2018 6:36:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nhill40

Thank you for the advice!

Does anyone know if the out of the box scenarios are pretty good about telling you if, for example, high supply needs to be enabled? The thought I could get hours into a scenario before noticing something from an optional rule perspective was out of whack really stresses me out! [:'(]



Absolutely the scenario notes attached to the scenario are vital reading in terms of specific objectives/shock penalties to a particular side and indeed any special rule options. Normally the historical justification for any rules specific to the scenario are explained in the designers notes.

Not only educational but very important reading !



gbaby -> RE: Thinking of trying TOAW - need some advice... (1/28/2018 12:22:24 PM)

I have all the Panzer Campaign games and love them all. Almost all the east front games are now "gold" level, where all titles are being planned for gold versions to update the tool bars, graphics, etc. A new Panzer Battles (south front) title is also just around the corner to be released.

TOAW IV is much more flexible and abstract in scale and time period. That is an excellent thing. TOAW IV is worth having.

As for selecting which one? Tough one. I play them both. If you had to have only one, I'd go with TOAW IV, more bang for the buck. But Panzer Campaigns is worth owning and playing as well. Not for everyone, but I certainly do love them.



fatgreta1066 -> RE: Thinking of trying TOAW - need some advice... (1/28/2018 1:13:23 PM)

Here's a lurker jumping in to the game, thanks for this post!



devoncop -> RE: Thinking of trying TOAW - need some advice... (1/28/2018 2:07:09 PM)

Welcome Fatgreta !!!

Let us know how you are finding it and if you fancy a MP game just PM me. I am certainly no expert only having played about 5 scenarios but the offer is there .

Have fun !



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