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Mike_B20 -> (5/30/2003 12:56:18 AM)
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chiteng
[B]Really? Show me any air battle where that happened.
I would really like to hear about a battle where nine B-17
shot down 57 enemy planes AND still bombed the target.
Please by all means enlighten me =)
Saying things like 'The Japs lost 2-1' is meaningless.
ANY source can be questioned. Who claims that?
What were the causes? [/B][/QUOTE]
I never said anything about 57 zeros being shot down.
B17's did shoot them down (not that you'd guess in Matrix's very lenient combat model).
Here's a few quotes about the general effectiveness of zeros and B17's.
"Up to this time the Zero was considered the best fighter in the Pacific. This belief stemmed from the fact that the Zero had spectacular characteristics of performance in both maneuverability, rate of climb, and radius of action, all first noted at the Battles of the Coral Sea and Midway. And it was because of its performances in these actions that it achieved the seeming invincibility that it did. At the same time, the Zero was highly flammable because it lacked armor plate in any form in its design and also because it had no self-sealing fuel tanks, such as existed in U.S. aircraft. Initially in the war, in the hands of a good pilot, the Zero could usually take care of itself against its heavier and tougher American opponents, but early in the air battles over Guadalcanal, its days of supremacy became numbered. By the end of the war in the Pacific, the kill ratio of U.S. planes over Japanese aircraft went from approximately 2.5:1 to better than 10:1. "
Time of the Aces:
Marine Pilots in the Solomons, 1942-1944
Peter B. Mersky
Tanaka wasn't terribly enamoured with B17's, although the Japanese were generally disdainfull of level bomber effectiveness in anti-shipping role.
He obviously considered them a threat in the following exerpt from,
History of U.S. Marine Corps Operations in World War II
Volume I
by
Lieutenant Colonel Frank O. Hough, USMCR
Major Verle E. Ludwig, USMC
Henry I. Shaw, Jr.
This happened just prior to Second Naval Battle of Guadalcanal
(November 14-15, 1942)
"Next turn went to 15 B-17s that had left Espiritu Santo at 1018. They struck at 1430 from an altitude of 16,000 feet and scored one hit and several near misses with their 15 tons of explosives.
These attacks continued all day as the Henderson fliers scurried back and forth from their field. Nine transports were hit, and seven of them sunk. But from these sinking ships, some 5.000 men were rescued by destroyers. As Admiral Tanaka described the day:
'The toll of my force was extremely heavy. Steaming at high speed the destroyers had laid smoke screens almost continuously and delivered a tremendous volume of antiaircraft fire. Crews were near exhaustion. The remaining transports had spent most of the day in evasive action, zigzagging at high speed, and were now scattered in all directions.
In detail the picture is now vague, but the general effect is indelible in my mind of bombs wobbling down from high-flying B-17s, of carrier bombers roaring toward targets as though to plunge full into the water, releasing bombs and pulling out barely in time; each miss sending up towering columns of mist and spray; every hit raising clouds of smoke and fire as transports burst into flame and take the sickening list that spells their doom. Attacks depart, smoke screens lift and reveal the tragic scene of men jumping overboard from burning, sinking ships. Ships regrouped each time the enemy withdrew, but precious time was wasted and the advance delayed.'
"
To be fair most of the hits on this tasforce were registered by the pilots of Cactus Air Force on Guadalcanal in Dauntlesses although a near miss of the heavy B17 ordnance could be very destructive.
From the same source there is a reference to one of the first B17's taking off from Guadalcanal bagging 3 zero's but I'm too tired to find it right now.
In fact the zero pilots referred to B17's as "four engined fighters".
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