Simultaneous movement (Full Version)

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Guderian1940 -> Simultaneous movement (2/3/2018 2:57:56 PM)

Simultaneous play means the turns are done within the same time frame with the same weather for each player rather then the current change to a different time and possible weather.

Would it be possible to have this as an option when starting a new game? It would add more diversity and challenges with the various scenarios. As well it would be more a standard way of playing for us old time Gronards.

How would this affect the overall turns and triggers?



Hairog -> RE: Simultaneous movement (2/4/2018 12:55:45 AM)

You can do it in the editor and then name the scenario a custom name. That is how I designed the Mod World War Three 1946. It works quite well and to me is much more understandable and logical.



[image]local://upfiles/751/4AD606357B95400BBB782C8B043F8579.jpg[/image]



Guderian1940 -> RE: Simultaneous movement (2/4/2018 7:42:38 AM)

I forgot to mention I know about the editor. I don't want to have to edit scenarios.

I think it should be a simple options when opening any standard scenario. I think it should be available as a Preference like Weather, FOW etc..



Hubert Cater -> RE: Simultaneous movement (2/5/2018 2:21:27 PM)

Practically speaking this would not really work as an in game option as it would double the number of turns for the game which would require a second version of the campaign, heavily edited, to accommodate that level of change to the default setup.



Hairog -> RE: Simultaneous movement (2/5/2018 3:22:22 PM)

True Hubert, but it does work for a shorter scenario such as WWIII 1946 which is around 60 turns.

By the way thank you for including the incredible Editor. It is a hoot to modify this strategic simulation.




sPzAbt653 -> RE: Simultaneous movement (2/5/2018 4:12:08 PM)

quote:

By the way thank you for including the incredible Editor.

+10 [:)]



Hubert Cater -> RE: Simultaneous movement (2/5/2018 6:31:47 PM)

Thanks and to clarify, it will certainly work as an option for any scenario, it is just that the default campaigns that ship with the game were not designed with double the number of turns in mind, so to have it as an in game option would require us to create two versions of the default campaigns in order to accommodate such an option for players to select from.

At this point, it is simply better for players to either design their own scenarios using simultaneous turn lengths, as you've done, or to rebuild/edit the defaults, using the Editor, knowing that by changing it to simultaneous will double the number of turns.



Guderian1940 -> RE: Simultaneous movement (2/5/2018 11:41:17 PM)

Thank you. I figured that might be an issue. I gather there would be twice as much time for Diplomacy to work, faster reinforcements, faster tech etc. These would be the major issues.



Taxman66 -> RE: Simultaneous movement (2/5/2018 11:48:17 PM)

Double the MPP too.



Guderian1940 -> RE: Simultaneous movement (2/5/2018 11:59:25 PM)

Quite right.



Guderian1940 -> RE: Simultaneous movement (2/6/2018 12:03:52 AM)

Just a curious question Hubert. Why doing it the way you did. I find it hard to believe it is just for initiative. I would think the players would seize initiative in any case regardless. Yes one side goes first but I have hundreds of games where the second phase player sizes initiative and carries it forward. Nto having the same weather in a turn actually can destroy an initiative since one side gets the advantage to counter another players attack in better weather. Seems to me non simultaneous works both ways as well. IMHO of course.



mroyer -> RE: Simultaneous movement (2/6/2018 2:12:32 AM)

Couldn't you just double the turn lengths to accommodate the simultaneous turn and re-balance the scenario?
-Mark R.



Hairog -> RE: Simultaneous movement (2/6/2018 3:32:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mroyer

Couldn't you just double the turn lengths to accommodate the simultaneous turn and re-balance the scenario?
-Mark R.



That's exactly what I did with World War Three 1946. I believe it works just fine from all I've seen and heard.



Guderian1940 -> RE: Simultaneous movement (2/6/2018 1:21:22 PM)

That sounds like a solution. Thanks.



Hubert Cater -> RE: Simultaneous movement (2/6/2018 1:29:49 PM)

It's certainly possible to do this, you'll just have to keep in mind that the scripts, EVENTS and AI, are all fine tuned to the current date system and one would have to go through them with a fine toothed comb to adjust them accordingly to any new turn lengths.

The Editor has a DATE export tool that will generate a file of all the turn dates, depending on how you've set the turns and lengths for the campaign which will help with the job.

That being said, long term plans, for future games, are indeed to move to double the turn lengths with simultaneous turns, but since it's an overhaul of all the existing scripts, it's a big job that we need to add to our development timeline and to test etc.



Hubert Cater -> RE: Simultaneous movement (2/6/2018 1:41:06 PM)

Regarding the idea of same weather for both sides on the same turn/date, that system will certainly have more consistent weather in game, but it does seem to favor only the side that goes second in game.

For example, in 1939 Storm over Europe, Axis goes first, so any Polish response after the first turn would be under the same weather. But 150 turns later (and let's say 1 day turns for this argument only) when the Allies are invading France via D-Day it might look something like this:

June 6, 1944 - Axis Turn (Sunny)
June 6, 1944 - Allied Turn (Sunny) - D-Day is launched
June 7, 1944 - Axis Turn (Rain) - Axis turn to respond

In game it feels like the Allies are going first when it comes to D-Day, because they are the ones attacking, but in reality they are going second on that date, and any Axis response is on the next turn, with possibly different weather, so in my mind it feels like it really isn't all that different than what we have now as the Axis could possibly respond to D-Day under different weather conditions.

I might be missing something, won't be the first time, but there still seems the possibility of attacks and responses with differing weather, unless the initiative system has something to do with compensating for this? Perhaps it pushes the weather over to the next turn or something like that?






Hairog -> RE: Simultaneous movement (2/6/2018 6:53:30 PM)

The Operational Art of War folks have developed another much more complicated way to mitigate the artificiality of being able to march up with multiple units and have them all attack at once. This artificiality doesn't take into account that in "real life" they may not all show up on the first day of the week and in fact some may not be ready until the end of the week. This would affect advance after combat and of course the weather at the time of the attack.

They've chosen a very complicated system to simulate the problem. A lengthy explanation is HERE

After reading this...maybe Hubert's solution is better and certainly less complicated.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Simultaneous movement (2/7/2018 11:07:41 AM)

In real life the weather constantly changes, but in turn based games the weather stops and remains the same for the duration of the turn. In SC3 this could be for up to three weeks. In games we get many advantages that the historic players did not enjoy, but alternate turns are one little thing that adds some welcome unpredictability while not adversely affecting anything [unless you watch the calendar, which may cause you to freak out!]. Alternating turns may offend some, but I like the variability that it adds to a Strategic Scale game like SC3.



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