Ship Replacement (Full Version)

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Strike Eagle -> Ship Replacement (3/13/2018 9:40:58 PM)

According to the game manual, any ship sunk before 1944 may be replaced by a new ship as reinforcements if the option is selected for the scenario, and the manual provides a few examples:

1. American CV sunk will be replaced with an Essex CV.
2. American or Australian CA will be replaced with either a Baltimore or a Cleveland CA/CL.
3. Japanese Midget Subs will be replaced with a Type "D" midget sub.

Well, I'm wondering what about the other ship types, both Allied and Japanese, such as BBs, CVE/CVLs, DDs, and full-sized subs(i.e. Tambor), what specific class(es) replace each of their respective types in the event of a sinking prior to 1944? Thanks in advance.





Barb -> RE: Ship Replacement (3/13/2018 10:01:51 PM)

I do think that the "replacement ships" as you mention are a functionality in WITP, not WITPAE. No other replacement ships were provided, just those stated.

WITP:AE however do not kept this - allied side already contains all ships available, that will arrive. The only "Bonus" offered is that ships with names ending " II" could be renamed. IRL when US Navy lost USS Hornet (CV-8), they named one of the Essex class carriers as USS Hornet II (CV-12). Same with few other ships. There was a case when US Navy renamed one Baltimore Heavy cruiser for Australian HMAS Canberra - USS Canberra (CA-70). Several destroyers were also renamed after ships lost earlier like USS Strong (DD-467) with USS Strong II (DD-758).

In this way the WITPAE offers you the ability to rename these " II" ships for some other. E.G. you lost USS Enterprise, but not USS Hornet - simply rename USS Hornet II to USS Enterprise II and voila :) Or in case when you did not lost a carrier you can rename USS Hornet II to carrier that is not in game - like USS Valley Forge or USS Chattanooga




BillBrown -> RE: Ship Replacement (3/13/2018 10:17:53 PM)

This is an option set by the scenario designer, and as far as I know, there are no scenarios with this option enabled.

And only the ship types shown in the manual are replaced.




spence -> RE: Ship Replacement (3/13/2018 11:28:00 PM)

To be specific if not already clear:

An Essex class carrier was built and entered service during WW2 that was named the USS Hornet replacing that name only in the whatever list the US Navy keeps for its commissioned ships (A Yorktown class carrier USS Hornet was sunk at the Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands). It not an extra ship; only a renaming of an existing ship. It already had a name as it sat on the building ways but whatever name it had was consigned to the dustbin of history or applied to a completely different ship long after WW2.

In the game the ships that were already built and renamed for their sunken predecessors are identified by the addition of roman numeral II following their name.




Strike Eagle -> RE: Ship Replacement (3/14/2018 12:10:32 AM)

I know about the historical ships that were named after vessels sunk earlier in the war(i.e.Lexington, Quincy etc.), and your ability to change their names before they arrive in-game, what I'm referring to is the game providing a replacement for a ship lost in the game, for example; In one AAR thread I used to follow, wneumann's "Sleepless on Samoa, The Sequel (wneumann vs Jolly Pillager)," wneumann lost CL Boise, a ship that survived WWII IRL, to surface action earlier in his game, and as he got further in the game, he received a new cruiser named Boise II. So, I was just wondering if automatic ship replacement applies to other types of vessels, such as BBs?




BillBrown -> RE: Ship Replacement (3/14/2018 1:20:48 AM)

The ship that he got Boise II, WAS NOT a REPLACEMENT. There are NO replacements in any scenario that I have ever seen.

The proper term is respawn by the way and maybe a picture will help. This is scenario 1 and as you can see the
"use respawn" box is NOT checked, so no ships will be respawned.

[image]local://upfiles/6818/F1711CEA3E624B1EB37B393907EB4FF8.jpg[/image]




spence -> RE: Ship Replacement (3/14/2018 1:56:06 AM)

Pretty sure that:

a) the lead time for a new Battleship exceeded the length of time that the US was engaged in WW2 thus there were never any plans for a USS Arizona or USS Oklahoma (unless they were part of the Montana class which were never built - any starts were cancelled anyways.

b) the BB was superceded as the measure of naval power during WW2




BBfanboy -> RE: Ship Replacement (3/14/2018 2:22:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Pretty sure that:

a) the lead time for a new Battleship exceeded the length of time that the US was engaged in WW2 thus there were never any plans for a USS Arizona or USS Oklahoma (unless they were part of the Montana class which were never built - any starts were cancelled anyways.

b) the BB was superceded as the measure of naval power during WW2


But guess what ...... BBs are baaaaaack! And giving a big "thumbs up" about it!



[image]local://upfiles/35791/C4FD0184F68E456EA14836C70F294A0A.jpg[/image]




Strike Eagle -> RE: Ship Replacement (3/14/2018 2:39:42 AM)

Alright, thanks for the responses, they helped clear some things up.




Mike Dubost -> RE: Ship Replacement (3/15/2018 1:59:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

To be specific if not already clear:

An Essex class carrier was built and entered service during WW2 that was named the USS Hornet replacing that name only in the whatever list the US Navy keeps for its commissioned ships (A Yorktown class carrier USS Hornet was sunk at the Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands). It not an extra ship; only a renaming of an existing ship. It already had a name as it sat on the building ways but whatever name it had was consigned to the dustbin of history or applied to a completely different ship long after WW2.

In the game the ships that were already built and renamed for their sunken predecessors are identified by the addition of roman numeral II following their name.
\

As a very minor point of interest, some years ago, I visited the USS Hornet in Alameda (where they keep the nuclear wessels /Checkov) [:)] and the tour mentioned that the keel still had the original name (USS Kearsarge).




spence -> RE: Ship Replacement (3/15/2018 1:31:17 PM)

IIRC the USS Kearsarge was ultimately built and commissioned as an LHD (helicopter landing ship) in 1970 something.




BillBrown -> RE: Ship Replacement (3/15/2018 4:32:45 PM)

CV-33 Kearsarge was launched in 1945.




witpqs -> RE: Ship Replacement (3/15/2018 5:02:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Strike Eagle

Alright, thanks for the responses, they helped clear some things up.

This is additional info. So far as I know all the answers you already have are correct.

- IIRC, when the replacement ships option is selected for a scenario, a 'replacement ship' will not appear if the corresponding 'original' ship is not sunk. In other words, the Allied player would wind up not receiving some ships which were received historically. As noted above, the replacement ship option is not in any of the included scenarios (nor any others I recall hearing of), so this should only happen in a player-made scenario where the designer told you the option was enabled.

- The option does not apply to BB's. As mentioned above it applies to carriers and cruisers. It might apply to destroyers as well. In one of the scenario databases there are a number of USN DD with the "II" suffix in their name. As far as I know that is the marker for a ship which replaces one sunk. Someone who knows for sure would have to comment on whether the option applies to DD named this way in addition to CV/CA/CL.

- In (old) WITP (as opposed to present WITP-AE) there was also automatic replacement of various smaller vessels. I recall it applied to barges (for Japan) and to small mine sweepers. Maybe some other types but I don't remember. I'm not sure if it is implemented in any way in WITP-AE. Someone else might know for certain.

Hope this is helpful.




Strike Eagle -> RE: Ship Replacement (3/15/2018 10:28:41 PM)

The extra info does help, thank you, by the way, do you know how the replacement ship option is enabled for player-created scenarios?




BillBrown -> RE: Ship Replacement (3/15/2018 10:50:29 PM)

See the picture I posted above.




Alfred -> RE: Ship Replacement (3/16/2018 9:17:34 AM)

As always, correct terminology usage clarifies game rules.

There are two different processes involved here; one is respawning ships lost historically, the other is replacing ships lost in the game.

1.  Respawning is only available if the scenario designer has enabled it in the editor.  There is no respawning in any of the official scenarios.  A respawned ship uses a different slot number than the original named sunk ship.

2.  Replacing is always on for those ship types which meet the criteria.  It is not possible to turn off this feature.  A replaced ship uses the same slot number used by the original sunk ship.

3.  Only the following ship types will respawn:

  • USN CV respawns to USN CV
  • USN cruisers respawn to USN cruiser
  • RAN CA respawns to USN CA
  • IJN SSX respawns to IJN SSX Type D Koryu


No other ship types of any nationality will respawn.

4.  The larger ship types respawn about 15 months after being sunk.  They respawn in the then current ship class (eg Wasp will respawn as an Essex class CV if it reappears when the Essex class has come into play) and carry the same name (ie no Yorktown II).

5.  Only barge type ships will be replaced if sunk.  These ships when sunk do not appear on the Sunk Ship List.  The replacement ship will become available 60 days after the sinking.


Ships which appear in the Ship Reinforcement List with a "xxxxII" in their name are neither a respawned nor replaced ship.  These are historical ships which whilst still under construction, were renamed in honour of a sunk ship.  There are therefore destroyers and submarines in the game which have the "xxxxII" name.  These ships will arrive irrespective of whether the original named ship remains afloat in the game.  They can only be given a new unique name whilst they remain in the Ship Reinforcement List.  Once they arrive on map they will retain their "xxxxII" name forever.

The respawning feature of classical WITP was greatly disliked by the AE devs.  It penalised good Allied players and rewarded poor Allied players.  The use of the replacing feature for barge types remove the problem of finding all those additional ship slots necessary to accommodate the historical number of barge types produced.

Alfred




rustysi -> RE: Ship Replacement (3/16/2018 2:19:21 PM)

quote:

I visited the USS Hornet in Alameda (where they keep the nuclear wessels /Checkov) and the tour mentioned that the keel still had the original name (USS Kearsarge).


It was my understnading she was the only such ship that had the 'two names', although others here have said there was one more.

quote:

Ships which appear in the Ship Reinforcement List with a "xxxxII" in their name are neither a respawned nor replaced ship. These are historical ships which whilst still under construction, were renamed in honour of a sunk ship.


I just wanted to highlight this...

Thanks Alfred.




witpqs -> RE: Ship Replacement (3/16/2018 7:37:41 PM)

Thanks, Alfred!




Admiral DadMan -> RE: Ship Replacement (3/17/2018 2:27:41 PM)

If I may further clarify Alfred under #5.;

In a scenario which does not have respawn enabled (like the official scenarios), the player may change the name of a vessel in the Ship Reinforcement List if the ship has a suffix of II, III, or IV. This change must be done before it arrives.

If respawn is enabled, reinforcement ship names may not be changed.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

As always, correct terminology usage clarifies game rules.

There are two different processes involved here; one is respawning ships lost historically, the other is replacing ships lost in the game.

1.  Respawning is only available if the scenario designer has enabled it in the editor.  There is no respawning in any of the official scenarios.  A respawned ship uses a different slot number than the original named sunk ship.

2.  Replacing is always on for those ship types which meet the criteria.  It is not possible to turn off this feature.  A replaced ship uses the same slot number used by the original sunk ship.

3.  Only the following ship types will respawn:
  • USN CV respawns to USN CV
  • USN cruisers respawn to USN cruiser
  • RAN CA respawns to USN CA
  • IJN SSX respawns to IJN SSX Type D Koryu

No other ship types of any nationality will respawn.

4.  The larger ship types respawn about 15 months after being sunk.  They respawn in the then current ship class (eg Wasp will respawn as an Essex class CV if it reappears when the Essex class has come into play) and carry the same name (ie no Yorktown II).

5.  Only barge type ships will be replaced if sunk.  These ships when sunk do not appear on the Sunk Ship List.  The replacement ship will become available 60 days after the sinking.

Ships which appear in the Ship Reinforcement List with a "Xxxx II" in their name are neither a respawned nor replaced ship.  These are historical ships which whilst still under construction, were renamed in honour of a sunk ship.  There are therefore carriers, cruisers, destroyers, and submarines in the game which have the "Xxxx II" name.  These ships will arrive irrespective of whether the original named ship remains afloat in the game.  They can only be given a new unique name whilst they remain in the Ship Reinforcement List.  Once they arrive on map they will retain their "Xxxx II" name forever.

The respawning feature of classical WITP was greatly disliked by the AE devs.  It penalised good Allied players and rewarded poor Allied players.  The use of the replacing feature for barge types remove the problem of finding all those additional ship slots necessary to accommodate the historical number of barge types produced.

Alfred




witpqs -> RE: Ship Replacement (3/17/2018 3:30:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan

If I may further clarify Alfred under #5.;

In a scenario which does not have respawn enabled (like the official scenarios), the player may change the name of a vessel in the Ship Reinforcement List if the ship has a suffix of II, III, or IV. This change must be done before it arrives.

If respawn is enabled, reinforcement ship names may not be changed.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

As always, correct terminology usage clarifies game rules.

There are two different processes involved here; one is respawning ships lost historically, the other is replacing ships lost in the game.

1.  Respawning is only available if the scenario designer has enabled it in the editor.  There is no respawning in any of the official scenarios.  A respawned ship uses a different slot number than the original named sunk ship.

2.  Replacing is always on for those ship types which meet the criteria.  It is not possible to turn off this feature.  A replaced ship uses the same slot number used by the original sunk ship.

3.  Only the following ship types will respawn:
  • USN CV respawns to USN CV
  • USN cruisers respawn to USN cruiser
  • RAN CA respawns to USN CA
  • IJN SSX respawns to IJN SSX Type D Koryu

No other ship types of any nationality will respawn.

4.  The larger ship types respawn about 15 months after being sunk.  They respawn in the then current ship class (eg Wasp will respawn as an Essex class CV if it reappears when the Essex class has come into play) and carry the same name (ie no Yorktown II).

5.  Only barge type ships will be replaced if sunk.  These ships when sunk do not appear on the Sunk Ship List.  The replacement ship will become available 60 days after the sinking.

Ships which appear in the Ship Reinforcement List with a "Xxxx II" in their name are neither a respawned nor replaced ship.  These are historical ships which whilst still under construction, were renamed in honour of a sunk ship.  There are therefore carriers, cruisers, destroyers, and submarines in the game which have the "Xxxx II" name.  These ships will arrive irrespective of whether the original named ship remains afloat in the game.  They can only be given a new unique name whilst they remain in the Ship Reinforcement List.  Once they arrive on map they will retain their "Xxxx II" name forever.

The respawning feature of classical WITP was greatly disliked by the AE devs.  It penalised good Allied players and rewarded poor Allied players.  The use of the replacing feature for barge types remove the problem of finding all those additional ship slots necessary to accommodate the historical number of barge types produced.

Alfred


Yes, and there are possible a side effects for the new Intel Monkey. WITP-AE produces reports which are sometimes ambiguous by giving only the name of a ship and not nationality or type (sometimes type is given but not always). Intel Monkey reads the scenario database to look up information about items in the game (LCU, aircraft, ships, etc) to resolve ambiguities encountered when parsing reports.

When a player does change the name of a " II" ship (eg "Yorktown II") the new name is not available for Intel Monkey to look up because it appears only in the game save file (off limits) not in the scenario file. Ideally a player could rename any " II" ships by modifying the scenario file and the players start the game with that. What I have elected to do in my current game is keep the " II", etc. names as is so as not to confound any Intel available to my opponent.




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