RE: Adventures in Russia

RE: Adventures in Russia (Full Version)

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larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/6/2018 12:05:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MikeJ19 Larry, You almost need a team of players to try that scenario there is so much to think about. Either that or take detailed notes for yourself. I used to do that, now I just post a picture in the AAR to remind me. I don't always remember to go back through the AAR very often though. Since then I've gotten tired of trying to remember everything AND taking notes. The games I play are beer and pretzels kinds of friendly games and don't worry so much about every little detail. I don't play to win, I play for the processs, the emmersion, getting into the "zone" so well that the real world goes away for a bit. quote: ORIGINAL: MikeJ19 The scenario I'm about to begin will be my first experience with rail movement and I'm hoping to remember to use it to get my forces into defensive locations faster. It is very interesting watching your planning about the rail network. When you begin your turn you can press the period key '.' to be directed to a unit that's embarked and you can decide to disembark it, move it, whatever. Pressing the period key again will disembark the embarked unit. Holding down the period key will disembark all the units that are embarked and have yet to move. quote: ORIGINAL: MikeJ19 Well done getting Leningrad. Actually the plan was to skip Leingrad and just go for Moscow but I got carried away and chased Soviet units up to Leningrad just to kill them and old habits die hard I guess. It was a surprise actually. I didn't expect it at the beginning of the game. Now that I've actually done it people will expect it of me from now on I guess. One of these days I really would like to skip Leningrad and just go for Moscow.

larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/6/2018 7:08:37 PM)
Here's the plan for the south. The blue lines on the right are the natural defensive lines defined by the super river and that seems like a good stopping point for me and my forces. Although I would like to except that rule with this: I want to capture the city of Stalingrad for the drop in production and supply it would mean for the Soviets. Every little bit helps. Also the prestige. Also, that's what happened in the real thing, Germany took Stalingrad. It happened. So I thought I ought to try too. But I don't need the cities past Stalingrad unless they are extraordinarily easy to take because I suspect the supply levels will be really low that far east. That's why it might be a good idea to stop at the rivers. [image]local://upfiles/16287/1D6A158013E04047952171A0E53D9B8D.jpg[/image]

larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/6/2018 7:19:35 PM)
The Crimea is still hurting for supply and I'm guessing it's going to be a while before they get any. So there won't be any attacking anytime soon. Unless the supply comes back online after the mud season ends. That would be cool indeed. I just looked at the situation report and it said that the supply radius is 2 right now and ordinarily it's 4 so I'm guessing that the supply level will rise when the supply radius does, after the mud season ends. That's the theory. [image]local://upfiles/16287/6AACAD2E7ACF4B1CB21C6ED391134219.jpg[/image]

MikeJ19 -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/6/2018 9:37:33 PM)
Larry, Thanks for the hints on rail movement. It is sometimes very hard to stick to the plan when a really good opportunity happens... Keep up the good work,

700851McCall -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/6/2018 10:28:20 PM)
This is the key rail line I reckon.If you can grab that and hang onto it you'll be able to go in whatever direction you want. Once you've rebuilt it. [img]https://i.imgur.com/TYHTO2n.png[/img]

DanNeely -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/6/2018 11:03:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson quote: ORIGINAL: 700851McCall You've done amazingly well playing the red green yellow thing. I didn't think it would work. Personally I'll attack with a unit if it is at yellow or better, assuming the attack is necessary. Orange and red will only fight or move if things are desperate. The game does account for this itself though, since I believe the way it works is that units in poor supply will make weaker attacks and take more casualties. So moving and attacking with red and orange units is punished automatically. I can't find anything wrong with what you've said and on the other hand I think it's accurate. I didn't think the red green yellow rule would work either but the only drawback I've found is not attacking when you want to. I know guys that run their units in the red for the entire game. They try to do what the Axis did in real life and to do that you have to take chances and drive your units when they really ought to rest and that just feels "gamey" to me. It's not realistic I think. I've been in the military and I've seen how particular they are that the equipment is kept in the green and that the people are treated with respect and empathy and it's rare that something beyond the call of duty is required. And taking risks is rare in real life. The US spends so much on the planes and tanks and the training for the people that run them that they don't want to lose any. Especially for no good reason. The military has changed since I was in. It's all volunteer now and they treat their people right for a change. Oh, and thank you so much for your kind words. I like to get praise every once in a while. It's good for the soul. It wouldn't be realistic if done while playing the US, but the WW2 Germans regularly ran their army to the extreme limits of supply just as the Soviets didn't care how many casualties they suffered as long as they achieved their battlefield goals.

DanNeely -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/6/2018 11:33:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson Here's the northern front lines right now and the idea was to follow a rail line to Moscow as the next priority project but then some Soviet units started ganging up on the NE corner and I've redirected the Panzers up there to fight off the threat. I've got to find enough units to build a front line from here to Moscow. I don't think there's enough people for that. I'll have to take the broad-front approach instead of a finger pointed at Moscow. It's a lot slower but you don't have to fortify the flanks as you go. As soon as the Finns are done mopping up near Leningrad I'm going to set them on a mission to the NE of here to ArchAngel to see if they can shut down Lend Lease. It's a long journey and I expect them to take the rest of the game getting there and doing something about Lend Lease. It's not a crisis if they fail and it's something positive for them to do. [image]local://upfiles/16287/AFB0206DBF7B4B9096C7159D2D3B3B5B.jpg[/image] Don't forget that a few of your Finns are going to be frozen in place soon as a notional occupation force for Leningrad. Unless Elmer cooperates by acting blindsided I think Arkhangelsk is going to be a tough nut to crack. Supply on the coastal road is going to be miserable by the time you get to the city. That means in addition to needing to advance to around the stop lines on either side of Lake Onega to get your rail supply in place you're going to have to also advance along the roadless railline through the woods from Onega to Arkhangelsk and will need to set up 3 blocking groups along your southern flank as you advance. One on the road between Onega and Kargopol, a second southeast east of the Y in the rail covering troops moving north via rail from Konosha, and then a 3rd on the road heading out of Arkhangelsk to the SE itself. If I didn't expect you to decide to restart again before getting that far. I'd suggest initially only going as far enough east to cover the rail junction near Belomorsk, and instead first advance up the rail line toward Murmansk rolling up each Soviet blocker to the west as you do. Freeing up all of those troops will give you enough Finns to cover all of your additional flank routes as they open up on the main push to the east afterwards. A few general thoughts on the rest of your plan. The terrain between Leningrad and Moscow is heavily forested and swampy making for a much better situation for the defense. Unless you're able to sustain a continuous rollup of the Soviet line - and if nothing else I'd imagine the pending Soviet counter offensive once the snow gets heavier will let Elmer shore up his lines you'd probably be better off letting that segment of the line go into indefinite hold in place and rail your armor south to attack Moscow either directly from the west or to come up from the southwest where the terrain is more open and tank friendly. To the south the area norht of the Don has nothing of value unless you can reach the production point of Saratov, and the lack of suitably aligned rail means that unless you advance on a very large font keeping supplied is going to be a major problem. Your proposed rail path runs through the middle of the huge no-rail zone on either side of the Don. The one you need to attack Stalingrad is closer to the southern end of the Don as it flows towards Rostov. The potential rail line leading to Stalingrad to the north is even farther out of the way. The western half of the area between the southern Don and the mountains has a decent potential supply net with two prices in the form of the Production city of Krasnodar and the Supply city of Maykop (+2 for you???). Assuming you don't get chased out in a counter attack, Grozny is in reasonable reach, and if the soviets being to crumble the -5 supply penalty they suffer for losing Baku will really help keep them down.

MikeJ19 -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/7/2018 12:09:37 AM)
Dan, That is great Int for Larry.

larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/7/2018 12:19:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DanNeely quote: ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson Here's the northern front lines right now and the idea was to follow a rail line to Moscow as the next priority project but then some Soviet units started ganging up on the NE corner and I've redirected the Panzers up there to fight off the threat. I've got to find enough units to build a front line from here to Moscow. I don't think there's enough people for that. I'll have to take the broad-front approach instead of a finger pointed at Moscow. It's a lot slower but you don't have to fortify the flanks as you go. As soon as the Finns are done mopping up near Leningrad I'm going to set them on a mission to the NE of here to ArchAngel to see if they can shut down Lend Lease. It's a long journey and I expect them to take the rest of the game getting there and doing something about Lend Lease. It's not a crisis if they fail and it's something positive for them to do. Don't forget that a few of your Finns are going to be frozen in place soon as a notional occupation force for Leningrad. Unless Elmer cooperates by acting blindsided I think Arkhangelsk is going to be a tough nut to crack. Supply on the coastal road is going to be miserable by the time you get to the city. That means in addition to needing to advance to around the stop lines on either side of Lake Onega to get your rail supply in place you're going to have to also advance along the roadless railline through the woods from Onega to Arkhangelsk and will need to set up 3 blocking groups along your southern flank as you advance. One on the road between Onega and Kargopol, a second southeast east of the Y in the rail covering troops moving north via rail from Konosha, and then a 3rd on the road heading out of Arkhangelsk to the SE itself. If I didn't expect you to decide to restart again before getting that far. I'd suggest initially only going as far enough east to cover the rail junction near Belomorsk, and instead first advance up the rail line toward Murmansk rolling up each Soviet blocker to the west as you do. Freeing up all of those troops will give you enough Finns to cover all of your additional flank routes as they open up on the main push to the east afterwards. A few general thoughts on the rest of your plan. The terrain between Leningrad and Moscow is heavily forested and swampy making for a much better situation for the defense. Unless you're able to sustain a continuous rollup of the Soviet line - and if nothing else I'd imagine the pending Soviet counter offensive once the snow gets heavier will let Elmer shore up his lines you'd probably be better off letting that segment of the line go into indefinite hold in place and rail your armor south to attack Moscow either directly from the west or to come up from the southwest where the terrain is more open and tank friendly. To the south the area norht of the Don has nothing of value unless you can reach the production point of Saratov, and the lack of suitably aligned rail means that unless you advance on a very large font keeping supplied is going to be a major problem. Your proposed rail path runs through the middle of the huge no-rail zone on either side of the Don. The one you need to attack Stalingrad is closer to the southern end of the Don as it flows towards Rostov. The potential rail line leading to Stalingrad to the north is even farther out of the way. The western half of the area between the southern Don and the mountains has a decent potential supply net with two prices in the form of the Production city of Krasnodar and the Supply city of Maykop (+2 for you???). Assuming you don't get chased out in a counter attack, Grozny is in reasonable reach, and if the soviets being to crumble the -5 supply penalty they suffer for losing Baku will really help keep them down. Hey there DanNeely my friend. you've been busy. You seem to have done all the research I needed to do already. I really appreciate what you've come up with and I agree with all you've said and I think it's a better idea than the one I had. Keep these really good ideas coming. The game will be better for it. And thank you very much for all the background info and analysis.

DanNeely -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/7/2018 2:32:49 AM)
The majority of that was just looking at what Jukipo did and why when he dismembered the Soviets.

larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/7/2018 4:09:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DanNeely The majority of that was just looking at what Jukipo did and why when he dismembered the Soviets. I tried to read his AAR but kept having to scroll to the right to see the rest of it and that became aggravating so I stopped. I try to not have my AAR readers scroll because of that.

larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/7/2018 4:21:06 AM)
Here's the northern front lines and I'm still having trouble clearing a path for the rail to leave Leningrad at one of the river crossings and so I'm still repairing rail going south for a more peaceful environment further south. Around Staraya Russa there's a section of the rail that bends east and that's a good place to reach for Moscow going east. These river crossings I'll probably leave for follow on forces to babysit and move the Panzers down to Staraya Russa and see how far I can go east down there. [image]local://upfiles/16287/52ADB7AB336546A1ABE09E97430DD507.jpg[/image]

larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/7/2018 4:41:57 AM)
I'm going to see if I can't bust a couple of bridges and cut off the supply to a group of Soviet units that is harrassing some valient Finns. If I can cut off their supply they may try to retreat or if they stay there I can bombard them from the air to use up their supply remaining and they will be easier to take down by the Finns. It's worth a try. I think I can get the engineer unit there and back okie dokie. [image]local://upfiles/16287/864FE9B6A1C34DD9BC03DF94E5C777C8.jpg[/image]

TPOO -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/7/2018 4:45:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson quote: ORIGINAL: DanNeely The majority of that was just looking at what Jukipo did and why when he dismembered the Soviets. I tried to read his AAR but kept having to scroll to the right to see the rest of it and that became aggravating so I stopped. I try to not have my AAR readers scroll because of that. Remember, Larry is playing the updated version of the scenario. Much different than the version that shipped with the game. The PO will perform somewhat different now than before and may require different strategies. There were several PO formations that did not fire as intended and have been adjusted. Thanks to all the great AAR's for the scenario help in tweaking the PO to perform better. I will even have another updated version to release shortly that have fixed some more things. Thanks to everyone. [:)]

larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/7/2018 5:18:00 AM)
I put this together for me but you guys might like to see it too. I'm trying to figure out where to put the RR engineers for maximum war effort effect and I see several railheads that would suffice for Operation Coaltrain and I'm trying to pick the best one and build it instead of the others. Finger of God advance doctrine. Fortify your flanks as you go but drive along the roads and rails straight toward Moscow and capture it in a rapid piercing motion. The problem with that approach is all the people it takes to fortify the flanks of the piercing group. I don't have the required people to do the Finger of God so I'm going to have to adopt the Eisenhower "Broad Front" approach where the advance is highly coordinated and syncronized so that there's no flanks to protect so to speak. it doesn't take as many men but the war lasts vastly longer. i think I'll try a compromise between the two. Broad Front but stay alert for opportunities. [image]local://upfiles/16287/66220278DD2D4505875278B0A0892419.jpg[/image]

larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/7/2018 5:24:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TPOO Remember, Larry is playing the updated version of the scenario. Much different than the version that shipped with the game. The PO will perform somewhat different now than before and may require different strategies. There were several PO formations that did not fire as intended and have been adjusted. Thanks to all the great AAR's for the scenario help in tweaking the PO to perform better. I will even have another updated version to release shortly that have fixed some more things. Thanks to everyone. Hey Rick...thanks for all your changes and your keen intellect, your ideas, this scenario. If I recall correctly this is version 4.5 that I'm running. If you would like me to restart to test your new changes now is the time to tell me before I get too much further along. I want to see what happens in the Soviet Winter Offensive however. This is my favorite scenario and I don't really mind restarting again but let's stay real here and admit it would be really nice to get to play this bad boy into 1943 at least. I've never gotten past turn 63.

larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/7/2018 5:35:43 AM)
The supply situation has gotten marginlly better around Kharkov and points south of there. Not enough to sustain operations but better than what they had, which was nothing at all since turn 32, ten consequtive turns of no supply at all. The no-events policy ( no moving, no shooting ) has brought this group through the whole thing almost as good as new. I'm impressed. I'm thinking too of using the no-events policy on the whole army as the Soviet Winter Offensive approaches and I'd like the units to have ample supply on-board and be leafy green for the beginning of that. Every little bit helps. So I'm thinking that for the month of November there should be only essential operations going on. Rest and refit, get ready for the worst they can dish out. Aircraft too. [image]local://upfiles/16287/D2FC6DA43ABB42E697C7E1490FB5B335.jpg[/image]

larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/7/2018 10:28:25 AM)
I'm going through the units moving them and so on and I've discovered that there's a section of my front lines that is wide open. The border graphic tells me that all's well reguarding enemy units near there but still.... I should find somebody to stand in the middle of that at least. A light screen is better than nothing at all. I'm amazed that Elmer hasn't taken advantage of that. I guess that none of his units has an objective near there. [image]local://upfiles/16287/BEC953EFE0944387BD7572595C285719.jpg[/image]

TPOO -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/7/2018 4:42:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson quote: ORIGINAL: TPOO Remember, Larry is playing the updated version of the scenario. Much different than the version that shipped with the game. The PO will perform somewhat different now than before and may require different strategies. There were several PO formations that did not fire as intended and have been adjusted. Thanks to all the great AAR's for the scenario help in tweaking the PO to perform better. I will even have another updated version to release shortly that have fixed some more things. Thanks to everyone. Hey Rick...thanks for all your changes and your keen intellect, your ideas, this scenario. If I recall correctly this is version 4.5 that I'm running. If you would like me to restart to test your new changes now is the time to tell me before I get too much further along. I want to see what happens in the Soviet Winter Offensive however. This is my favorite scenario and I don't really mind restarting again but let's stay real here and admit it would be really nice to get to play this bad boy into 1943 at least. I've never gotten past turn 63. You are doing good so stay on this AAR as long as you can. The update is just to fix a couple of things in 1943 that Jukipo spotted, renaming some equipment to historical names, and adjusting the JU87B which accidentally had the anti-shipping button in the equipment editor checked, so far.

MikeJ19 -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/7/2018 5:19:10 PM)
Larry, Very interesting stuff on the rail planning. As for the no supply, I know I would find it very hard to keep the front still that long. Your approach is likely the better one... Have a good day

DanNeely -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/7/2018 5:49:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TPOO quote: ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson quote: ORIGINAL: DanNeely The majority of that was just looking at what Jukipo did and why when he dismembered the Soviets. I tried to read his AAR but kept having to scroll to the right to see the rest of it and that became aggravating so I stopped. I try to not have my AAR readers scroll because of that. Remember, Larry is playing the updated version of the scenario. Much different than the version that shipped with the game. The PO will perform somewhat different now than before and may require different strategies. There were several PO formations that did not fire as intended and have been adjusted. Thanks to all the great AAR's for the scenario help in tweaking the PO to perform better. I will even have another updated version to release shortly that have fixed some more things. Thanks to everyone. [:)] I am aware. My commentary was almost all geographic, and the rail lines and difficult terrain haven't moved. The one major exception was the proposed attack on Arkhangelsk, where my observation was that it'd only be doable with a small force if Elmer ignored the steadily increasing exposed Finnish southern flank.

larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/8/2018 4:36:11 AM)
I'm in the process of destroying the last remaining Leningrad defender above Leningrad and that will be all of them. The mop up will be complete. Now to find something for the Finns to do. [image]local://upfiles/16287/CC5C6F4821A34863A497C7A37B8743A8.jpg[/image]

larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/8/2018 3:21:56 PM)
Here's the front lines in T43 before I have moved anybody. The mud season came to a halt and the supply grid has been restored. This is the last two weeks of November and I need to rest the units to get them up to about 100% supply and fully rested for the Soviet Winter Offensie which is about to begin in T49 I think. [image]local://upfiles/16287/0B98F2D88314475282434797D12C0C6D.jpg[/image]

larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/8/2018 5:03:39 PM)
I'm checking the aircraft as part of my new-turn routine and I've noticed that we aren't making any more B model Ju-87s and it's going to be quite a while yet before the Ju-87D shows up at the airfields and there's not all that many on hand to last that long. So I need to decide whether or not to forgo direct attacks with the remaining B models. I'm inclined to go ahead and use the planes and then when there's only a few on hand then I'll stand them down until the D model starts to show up. The Soviet Winter Offensive is about to happen and I feel like I need those Stukas on CS for that. [image]local://upfiles/16287/25FE838093C04874951A095E53474155.jpg[/image]

larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/8/2018 5:41:18 PM)
Here's some of the losses so far and I'm using the HRS row as a rough guide to how the force is doing and I'm thinking 34K HRS dudes is just fine. So far so good. And there's 300+ HRS on hand which will be gone pretty quickly after the Soviet Winter Offensive has been going on for a couple of turns. I'm aiming for a floor of 30K for the HRS row and when that level is reached, if it is, then I'll stand down the force to let it build up again. To go much below 30K I believe, makes the divisions too weak to stand by themselves on the front lines. They lack the punch to restore the front lines when there's a breadthrough. I need to develop some local reserves for the times when one more division is needed somewhere and right now. I doube there's enough people, units, for much of a reserve. I thought about breaking down the divisions to have enough units but then I'd have to stack them to prevent weak spots. It would turn into a micromanagement nightmare I'm thinking. Also, it's easier to move an entire formation if the units are all together and that's what formations do, move, and shoot, sometimes dig in. They are a fluid and dynamic vehicle to extend force in a specific spot and need to remain flexible to be maximally useful. Being engaged isn't helpful when you are trying to get around behind an enemy unit so it's helpful to lead the movement of the main moving unit with a low-cost throw-away unit to act as the release from the disengagement penalty. I'm explaining this badly. I need a picture to show what I mean. [image]local://upfiles/16287/9D580D06E8264D04A3126C6C5F893FFA.jpg[/image]

larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/9/2018 6:34:22 AM)
The Axis supply grid is back on-line because of the frozen ground and all of a sudden the Crimea has supply again. Not much but better than nothing at all. It's not enough to start the seige on the city. I've got two Rumanian RR engineers working on it day and night. I would divert some more engineers to this task but they are all otherwise employed already. Well, maybe one for down here. I'll have to figure out which route has the most progress and take it from there. [image]local://upfiles/16287/02FE3CC299E849BD92F81BFA49B61E34.jpg[/image]

larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/9/2018 8:08:44 AM)
Here's Kharkov right now and I've got a risky plan to run an MP unit across the Soviet backfield and see if I can't drop a bridge in the Soviet rear. It would maybe cut off supply to some Soviet units and shorten the war. I think it's worth a try. If he can't make it then he's got permission to abort. [image]local://upfiles/16287/E2640CDD2C25455987D127BABB004EE6.jpg[/image]

larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/9/2018 8:23:47 AM)
I had second thoughts about sending an MP unit down to that bridge and thought I'd send a recon unit instead because it moves a lot faster and it's got a high recon value to wiggle out of a semi-surround and I think it's got a higher chance to survive the mission. He didn't quite make it all the way to the bridge and I expect the Soviets to respond in some way to save their bridge and attack my unit. But maybe Elmer is asleep at the wheel and doesn't respond. Then I'll get a chance to drop several bridges. [image]local://upfiles/16287/5EB810E340354C2C8D0C25EF1FEECBF9.jpg[/image]

larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/9/2018 8:34:48 AM)
Further south I saw an opportunity to drive a recon unit around a small group of Soviet units in an effort to cut off their supply and thereby make the take-down of the Soviet units easier and quicker. I had to use the engineer unit from that formation to complete the cut off but it's in place and the attacks have already started. [image]local://upfiles/16287/DE4D325F43304495AC28E62E393E7482.jpg[/image]

larryfulkerson -> RE: Adventures in Russia (4/9/2018 8:45:14 AM)
That group that I have cut off and surrounded....I think it might be possible to dispatch all those Soviet units before the Soviet Winter Offensive starts. I need to do that because they get a boost in shock for the SWO and that would make them hard to dispatch. So I have to do it now. That would free up a lot of my troops that are needed elsewhere at the moment. They will probably become my reserve when they are through mopping up. [image]local://upfiles/16287/0B14218D8EBC48BF81152299F2332584.jpg[/image]

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