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SunlitZelkova -> RE: Scenario Testing- The Seto Submarine Scare, 2018 (4/7/2019 8:16:07 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Scorpion86
Hi there! I just played your mission right now, and I loved the concept. However, I felt that the JSDF was playing too passively. After playing through the scenario the first time, it felt odd that I wasn't discovered because, to be frank, I suck at submarine warfare. It needs too much patience for me.
So I decided to do an experiment: I tried to play as carelessly as possible. Cavitating, making no detours even after firing a boatload of missiles, sailing right under active sonobouys... But still no torpedoes would come. I rose to periscope depth and there were the choppers, dancing above my position. So I took a peek in Editor mode. Switching side, I saw the JSDF had detected me, 0 ambiguity. But still they wouldn't fire! Why? Then I glanced at the engagement rules: Weapons TIGHT. They had detected me, but still had identified me, so I was free to do as I pleased.
So I sugest changing the ASW engagement rules for the Japanese to Weapons FREE. In my briefing it states there is no naval activity in the area, and if I know that, the Japanese know it better than me, so if something starts shooting at civvies in the Seto Inland Sea, it stands to reason they'd be more willing to start shooting at any unknown submarine contact they encounter.
Thank you for your scenario and I hope you find my comments useful!
Hi, thanks for playing my scenario!
One of the reasons the JSDF is pretty dumbed down is because when I was testing the capability of the JSDF to hunt submarines in the Seto Inland Sea, I found an interesting factor in making a scenario- due to the shallow waters (in comparison to the ocean) of the Seto Inland Sea, if the scenario had taken place during daytime, the helicopters would have been able to spot the sub from the air, making the scenario pretty much impossible to play. This might be one of the reasons detection is harder, because they are limited to sensors.
Part of the reason why I choose to have it on "tight" is because of the political considerations of the scenario. If I remember correctly there should be at least a few "real" false contacts or possibly schools of fish. Regardless of if there were or not though, not only would the JSDF and Japanese government want to refrain from using 100000 USD+ torpedoes (expensive torpedoes at any rate) but also if they were to waste the torpedo by jumping to conclusions, it might cause public backlash. Furthermore they could be criticized as "trigger happy". In the worst case scenario, either the torpedo would kill wildlife by impacting them/he/she, or would harm the natural environment in general when it eventually self-destructs. Finally, while if a similar scenario were to happen in real life, the JSDF would probably be able to scramble and start searching for the submarine, they would have to wait for permission from the Prime Minister himself to fire any sort of weapon. Using live weapons against a real target for the first time in JSDF history could be a very long meeting of ministers, even if there is a danger of the submarine escaping.
Also, while the JSDF and Japanese government would likely be able to quickly verify that it is not one of their submarines they have spotted, there is the possibility of American submarines covertly operating in the area. While it would be unlikely that an American submarine would be operating in the area, it is still a possibility, and they would have to confirm there are no US subs in the area either. Depending on how willing the US military and government is to tell another government (no matter how allied they are) the location of their covertly operating submarine, getting confirmation could take awhile.
Even if the JSDF helicopter crews watch as torpedo contacts or visible torpedo wakes, and/or missile contacts or visible missiles appear to "leave from" the submarine, there is still a possibility it happens to be American. As bizarre as it would be to have an American submarine firing on Japanese civilian shipping, they would still probably want to contact the American government before destroying an American submarine (if it was an American submarine).
And even if they can somehow verify that the submarine does not appear to be American, for example, based on how the missiles launch (or on the fact it even has missiles at all), it is possible it is a new type of American submarine that is being kept secret. Again, even if it is firing on Japanese civilian shipping, they would still want to contact the US government before destroying their "new submarine" (if it was an American submarine).
These are the "in world" factors that made me want to have the ROE for ASW weapons set to "tight". You are welcome to use the editor to change it though and then try it in that way.
Thanks for the feedback! I will consider different ROE options in my next scenarios.
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