New patch coming soon? (Full Version)

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Shadrach -> New patch coming soon? (4/6/2018 12:41:23 PM)

The last patch was in January, so just wondering if we can expect a new patch soon(ish)?

Surely there are still things need fixing, UI issues, PBEM stuff, accessibility, editor improvements etc?

Just curious...



devoncop -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/6/2018 5:16:46 PM)

+1

Would be great if a few of the extra scenarios that are ready to go via the Mods and Scenarios thread could be incorporated into the stock game as some of us (I am looking in the mirror here) are simply incapable of dealing with zip files and pasting onto directories....!



hingram -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/6/2018 5:47:13 PM)

Some of that copy/pasting can be automated via a VBScript but it seemed like such an easy process I didn't see the reason to write it. Close Combat automated their mods in a similar way



MikeJ19 -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/7/2018 12:12:50 AM)

I agree with Ian, it took me a while to try Telu IV's mode because of being worried about pasting things in the wrong place...



warspite1 -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/7/2018 12:37:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: devoncop

Would be great if a few of the extra scenarios that are ready to go via the Mods and Scenarios thread could be incorporated into the stock game as some of us (I am looking in the mirror here) are simply incapable of dealing with zip files and pasting onto directories....!
warspite1

+1 billion. Not everyone is computer literate and as one of those who is highly computer illiterate, it would be great if us numpties could be given a hand here. Thank-you.



LeeChard -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/7/2018 2:10:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: devoncop



+1 billion. Not everyone is computer literate and as one of those who is highly computer illiterate, it would be great if us numpties could be given a hand here. Thank-you.


Numpties? [:D] I guess your talking about me [:)]



RPKUPK -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/8/2018 3:32:31 AM)

I hope they fix the bautruppen railroad repair problem on all the eastern front scenarios...they either don't work or have an exceedingly low repair success rate.
Also, all eastern front scenarios need to have adjusted Axis Allies "going home" as per historical withdrawals, even when the German is doing well or about to win...all of a sudden the Fins go home as do the Italians. Fix it! Keep them in.



larryfulkerson -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/8/2018 10:03:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RPKUPK
I hope they fix the bautruppen railroad repair problem on all the eastern front scenarios...they either don't work or have an exceedingly low repair success rate.
Also, all eastern front scenarios need to have adjusted Axis Allies "going home" as per historical withdrawals, even when the German is doing well or about to win...all of a sudden the Fins go home as do the Italians. Fix it! Keep them in.

Those aren't problems that a patch would fix. Those problems are from the scenario(s).



Tamas -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/9/2018 1:46:05 PM)

We are working on bug fixing in the short term in the background, and on new stuff for the long run. Due to the size of the team (which isn't particularly large) this takes some time, but we are far from done with the game!

We will try and get a post together on the fixes and changes we have so far, soon.



Lobster -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/9/2018 4:22:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RPKUPK
all of a sudden the Fins go home as do the Italians. Fix it! Keep them in.


The Italians were no longer part of the Axis. Of course they go home.

The Finns flatly stated to the Germans from the beginning that they would fight only until the losses of the Winter War were redressed. They actually did advance a bit farther but not much. The Finns were not likely to advance any farther than they did historically. Scenario designers who allow them to are creating a highly unlikely scenario that defies any historical accuracy. Almost as inaccurate as allowing the Turks to join the Axis. There was no historical basis to allow either of those events. Perhaps as some far fetched 'What If' scenario.

Probably what should be done is give Finland free reign in their advances until 25 October 1941 instead of giving them a stop line. That would force the Soviets to stay around in an attempt to delay the Finns as much as possible even to the extent of preventing Leningrad's siege.


From Wiki:
On 25 October 1941, the US demanded that Finland cease all hostilities against the USSR and withdraw behind the 1939 border. In public, President Ryti rejected the demands, but in private, he wrote to Mannerheim on 5 November asking him to halt the offensive. Mannerheim agreed and secretly instructed General Hjalmar Siilasvuo and his III Corps to break off the assault against the Kirov Railway.

Thus ended the Finnish offensive.



700851McCall -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/9/2018 5:20:06 PM)

I'd also like to add to the call for the scenario updates to be included in the patches.

Or failing that an idiots guide to pasting in the new files. I've seen someone give an explanation and it was 'do this, this and this and Bob's your uncle'. It didn't help me. Imagine a step by step guide that even someone who had just time-travelled in from 1642 could follow successfully. That would be great.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/10/2018 4:58:10 AM)

Nothing in this thread helped you ?
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4381180
If not, maybe you could tell us what is unclear so that we can make it better.

At some point in time all of us were idiots. The fact that you and others that do not 'understand' file structures are playing any complex game like TOAW proves otherwise [:)]



RPKUPK -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/11/2018 3:05:11 AM)


quote:

The Italians were no longer part of the Axis. Of course they go home.

The Finns flatly stated to the Germans from the beginning that they would fight only until the losses of the Winter War were redressed. They actually did advance a bit farther but not much


Then let's shut down all of these games and go read a history book. The WHOLE POINT of these games is "What If?," not a rehash of history exactly as it happened, but perhaps you disagree.
You are saying if Germany had captured Leningrad the Finn's would react as they did historically to the German failure on that front?
If Germany had defeated Russia then the Italians would then surrender in North Africa??
What if. What if.
Add in game or theater options.



erazerhead99 -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/11/2018 8:59:53 AM)

Surely wargames should offer decisions which differ from the course history took. An offensive Finland waging a war of conquest ist just illogical, though. It is totally inconceivable that the Finland we know would have done that. The country had fought a bloody civil war two decades earlier and the cracks in society were still deep, with some level of support for the reds remaining. The overwhelming majority of Finns had absolutely no interest in any kind of war outside of their national territory. Around 1920 a whole bunch of military expeditions into Karelia failed because the men lacked the will to fight outside of Finlands borders and just left the front for home. Mannerheim tracked a succesfull long term defensive strategy for Finland and had prevented escaliting the conflict with the SU for over 20 years. The finnish people also had developed a relatively strong democracy and even if it would have had more aggressive leaders in government and military in 1941, the population would not have supported such ideas.

Besides that, Finland was fully aware of the repercussions of fighting as ally of a genocidal dictatorship which would possibly loose the war. They tried to distance themselves from the axis as far as was possible in the war. Finland was not an ally to german but merely coincidentally fighting the same enemy.



Lobster -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/11/2018 1:09:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RPKUPK


quote:

The Italians were no longer part of the Axis. Of course they go home.

The Finns flatly stated to the Germans from the beginning that they would fight only until the losses of the Winter War were redressed. They actually did advance a bit farther but not much


Then let's shut down all of these games and go read a history book. The WHOLE POINT of these games is "What If?," not a rehash of history exactly as it happened, but perhaps you disagree.
You are saying if Germany had captured Leningrad the Finn's would react as they did historically to the German failure on that front?
If Germany had defeated Russia then the Italians would then surrender in North Africa??
What if. What if.
Add in game or theater options.


Reading a history book about whatever scenario you are going to play is actually a very good idea. And yes, if Germany had defeated the Soviet Union and the Italians had lost in North Africa, Sicily and Italy then they would have surrendered. Mussolini was not a popular guy.

Finland was a democracy, not a dictatorship. The leaders ruled by popular consent. The Fins were not controlled by a group of psychopathic Nazis thugs like Germany. If you twist history too much then it becomes ludicrous. If you would pay attention you would see they stopped their offensives BEFORE the war turned against the Germans. It wasn't a matter of how well the Germans were doing. It was a matter of politics within Finland and between them and the United States. Finland went to great extents to show they were a co belligerent, fighting against the same nation, not an ally, of Germany.



ETF -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/14/2018 2:07:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: devoncop

+1

Would be great if a few of the extra scenarios that are ready to go via the Mods and Scenarios thread could be incorporated into the stock game as some of us (I am looking in the mirror here) are simply incapable of dealing with zip files and pasting onto directories....!

+1 holding out for Steam where it is just plug and play :)



DanNeely -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/15/2018 12:05:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ETF


quote:

ORIGINAL: devoncop

+1

Would be great if a few of the extra scenarios that are ready to go via the Mods and Scenarios thread could be incorporated into the stock game as some of us (I am looking in the mirror here) are simply incapable of dealing with zip files and pasting onto directories....!

+1 holding out for Steam where it is just plug and play :)

even with steam you'll still need to manually install any 3rd party scenarios from the forum.



ETF -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/15/2018 3:29:32 AM)

Wouldn't that be in the workshop? New scenarios.....have seen that in other games. Not sure maybe not for matrix ones?



gliz2 -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/15/2018 9:16:33 AM)

You based your knowledge on postfactual.
At the given time no one knew what will happen and how the thing will shape up.
Quite possibly if the Soviet have collapsed the Fins, Swedes, Spain and Turkey would join their ranks to save their asses.
Who would have thought in 1940 that France would be defeated in 6 weeks? Or that the Japanese Navy HQ would not allow to install catapults on carriers as they thought that anyhow the ship can turn against the wind (seriously that was their thinking).

In my opinion you are confusing historical plausibility with replaying historical events. You cannot say something could not have happend as there is no way to verify this. Things happened. Other things MIGHT have happened but they didn't



Gandalf -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/15/2018 7:32:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gliz2

You based your knowledge on postfactual.
At the given time no one knew what will happen and how the thing will shape up.
Quite possibly if the Soviet have collapsed the Fins, Swedes, Spain and Turkey would join their ranks to save their asses.
Who would have thought in 1940 that France would be defeated in 6 weeks? Or that the Japanese Navy HQ would not allow to install catapults on carriers as they thought that anyhow the ship can turn against the wind (seriously that was their thinking).

In my opinion you are confusing historical plausibility with replaying historical events. You cannot say something could not have happend as there is no way to verify this. Things happened. Other things MIGHT have happened but they didn't



Sure! and the U.S. could have joined with the NAZIs like Henry Ford, Joseph Kenedy and Charles Lindbergh wanted!

Seriously, the TOAW scenario editor is provided just for these types of "What if?" modifications.



DanNeely -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/15/2018 8:38:21 PM)

In particular in the case of the Finns, they only wanted a limited war, but there was no guarantee that they could get it. Stalin refused to accept their recapture of the border areas, and eventually hammered them hard enough that they conceded on his terms. But even if the Soviets were willing for a separate peace, the Germans would have objected vigorously to it because it'd free a number of additional divisions to face them. That would've probably made a formal separate peace treaty a no-go from the Finns standpoint due to the risk of a triumphant Germany deciding to punish them after the conclusion of the war with Russia.

While historically the Finns were effectively stopped by stronger Soviet resistance after the opening months, changing circumstances if the German offensive went better than it did historically would've probably meant that they wouldn't be able to stall claiming the opposition was too strong. Freeing up a large portion of their army with the fall of Lenningrad - especially if it happened in early 42 because cutting the life road completely starved the city to death (the Germans came within a hair of doing so historically) and there wasn't a huge civilian population to control - is a reasonable simple proxy for when changing circumstances would result in the Germans being able to pressure the Finns into advancing well across the 1939 border.



gliz2 -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/17/2018 8:08:20 AM)

Again you are referring to factual. What-if is completely unknown. It's like with Malta. If the Germans had invested in helping the Italians on assault of Malta early in the war perhaps this would allow for taking control of the whole Mediterranean.
If the Germans had not declared war to USA the outcome of 1942 offensive would also be different.
You never know how and what a person will do until they the moment actually comes.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/17/2018 12:31:33 PM)

What-if's are enjoyed by many players, but I think most scenario designers of Historical Simulations try to keep to the realm of the possible. If they don't, they risk moving into Fantasy, and then will draw the ire of players desiring history.

I also think that there is nothing wrong with adding Fantasy Options to scenarios. The players choose to use them or not. Both sides are happy [:)]



gliz2 -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/17/2018 1:13:29 PM)

Again mixing two thing ab fantasy and what-ifs.
Have the Germans (or any of Allies) foreseen the Italian-Greek war? Nope. It was consider as a possibility. And it might not have happend if the Germans were more considerate.
This is an example of what-if (Italians do not attack Greece).

Another case is the famous winter supplies for the 1941 EF campaign. I have read quite a few books and the final decision was actually based on not on the Hitler's personal judgement but rather on mixture of contradicting stances in the OKH. And in the end Hitler took the decision to stop the fights inside the OKH on the matter. The problem was that the original planning was based on starting the offensive 2 months earlier. If it was a decision of just Chief of Staff than the preparation have been made (they were anyway made decpite Hilter's orders just at much reduced rate).
Again close one.

And the most prominent one is Hitler's decision to declare war on USA. One of the utmost stupidest decisions of his. Quite frankly no one supported it and afterwards Hitler could also not explain why he did it. It was one of his moments of madness. But if he did not do it what would have happened? It's not a fantasy but one of real scenarios.

A Fantasy scenario is USA joining Nazis.

Concluding in the game the player should be given options like playing without partisants in FITE2. Such ahistorical thing to allow ;)
Cause if you want play historical scenarios you'll be frustrated as the outcome can only be historical. Then what's the point of playing? Unless I have misunderstood your point there.

Just an exame from my exploits at FITE2. I transfer most of mechanized and motorized units to the north. Completely ahistorical. But again, so what?



sPzAbt653 -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/17/2018 2:19:44 PM)

quote:

Cause if you want play historical scenarios you'll be frustrated as the outcome can only be historical. Then what's the point of playing?

The players of Historical Simulations want to know the causes and influences that were in play during an historical conflict, and would like to replay it to see if different results can be obtained. Military Organizations do the same thing in order to base future strategies. Players also like to see if, given the same historical situation, can they reproduce the same results. Adding Fantasy into either of these situations is just wrong, it's heresy and irresponsible.

There is no problem with asking designers to add Fantasy into their scenario, but don't expect it as a matter of normalcy.



r6kunz -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/17/2018 5:04:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

Cause if you want play historical scenarios you'll be frustrated as the outcome can only be historical. Then what's the point of playing?

The players of Historical Simulations want to know the causes and influences that were in play during an historical conflict, and would like to replay it to see if different results can be obtained. Military Organizations do the same thing in order to base future strategies. Players also like to see if, given the same historical situation, can they reproduce the same results. Adding Fantasy into either of these situations is just wrong, it's heresy and irresponsible.

There is no problem with asking designers to add Fantasy into their scenario, but don't expect it as a matter of normalcy.

Wow, interesting to see how this thread has Segwayed. All for the good, I think.
Steve, I could not agree with you more. Nothing wrong with a "What if" scenario, but I play and design for the reasons you so eloquently stated.
cheers,



Curtis Lemay -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/17/2018 8:15:50 PM)

The neat thing about TOAW is that if you want to try something out in a scenario you're free to do so. So, if you really want to know what a battalion of Tiger IIs do to Lee's chances in my Killer Angels scenario you can find out for yourself. (It's really, really helpful).



Gandalf -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/19/2018 8:56:51 PM)

Back to the "patch" discussion.

Hopefully, the next patch might include additional information in the "Information Panel" regarding what additional unit number display options are being used/cycled thru with the "M" key (as defined on pg. 32 of the manual). As it is right now, this feature is not very useful since it is hard to tell which optional set of unit number displays are being used. All it tells you is either "Show movement allowance" or "Attack and Defense Strengths" making it hard to figure out what is being displayed. The show Time Stamp selection is particularly useful, and somewhat easier to know when selected even though NOT informed, but the other selections are almost totally useless if you have defined several of them to cycle thru. Might as well just leave it set to Advanced Default + Time Stamp



Shadrach -> RE: New patch coming soon? (4/22/2018 4:39:53 PM)

Thanks for keeping the thread alive guys, saves me having to bump it [:D]

What I'm interested in is basically some kind of hint how long we can expect to wait for the next patch. I've seen some 'leaks' around the forums that there is one being worked on, but how long (weeks, months?) until it's ready? Some hint on what it will include would also be really helpful.

I understand that the game has a single developer (and volunteer testers/mappers) so it's understandable things take time. Just some more information would be appreciated.

I guess coming from a place like Steam where players have come to expect at least weekly patches if not more often the first time after release, the 'glacial' pace of patches here might throw some off.



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