RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (Full Version)

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KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/5/2018 2:44:30 AM)

July 15, 1941

UK position in NA collapse and Lybian holdings are reduced to the Tobruk-Bardia pocket, Churchill is in hot water as 150,000 british soldiers risk entrapment. A major naval battle occurs off the coast of Algeria. Two German subs scouted and engaged the British task force protecting the area, followed by an attack of the (fully repaired!) Regia Marina. Over the course of two turns the Royal Navy task force is destroyed by the combined fleet... The main carrier Royal Force however had been rushed to the scene and proceeded to cut the Regia Marina in ribbons. Only the battered Trieste Heavy Cruiser remains... (well until the Roma is completed anyway!) but is unlikely to escape.

Unit Count pre-Barbarossa...

[image]http://farm1.staticflickr.com/863/41180482594_c5dd29f9be_b.jpg[/image]



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/6/2018 5:32:30 AM)

Aug 41

Barbarossa starts! Units near Ostrov escape unscathed (bomber, fighter, mech inf, corp), almost all other border units are destroyed. Finland joins Axis, Persia is invaded. The Tobruk pocket is reduced, no Dunkirk for these guys. First german sub sunk off the eastern coast of Spain. USSR Swedish diplohit +10%.

Notable neutrals: Netherlands, Latvia, Estonia, Spain

They really should give a trade route for keeping the Netherlands around as sort of a repeat of WW I.



room -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/6/2018 12:11:07 PM)

Oh I missed Netherland still neutral. That is a strange gameplay wise no? What is the interest for the german to not take it?

Otherwise, it s ok if they are hard to get in the allies if not attacked. Would they seriously consider to attack the Reich after France fell... That'd be crazy.



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/6/2018 12:18:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: room

Oh I missed Netherland still neutral. That is a strange gameplay wise no? What is the interest for the german to not take it?

Otherwise, it s ok if they are hard to get in the allies if not attacked. Would they seriously consider to attack the Reich after France fell... That'd be crazy.


He pushed through the Maginot so he ended up not needing it. Actually, Belgium would have been spared too hadn't Sugar needed to conquer it to activate Italy. [:)]

The declaration of war vs Belgium did give the Netherlands a 50% allied leaning. He's saving a bit on USA mobilisation but at the cost of missing out on plunder and mpp from the capital.

I do expect a whole slew of minors to go down once the USA joins. Although, by keeping them neutral, that's one bit of the coast he doesn't have to worry about.



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/6/2018 8:11:25 PM)

1941/8/26

The USSR chose not to give battle at the frontier preferring to fight in inside their country. Buddeny's HQ gets overrun but he narrowly escapes (aka destroyed in supply), Stalin consider giving him a second chance. Canadians make a surprise raid in Palermo and see paratrooper in range of Tunisia. The Duce consider allowing german troop to defend the Apennine Peninsula from further allied landings and save his regime, however doing so would cast aside any pretence at sovereignty. Without any army, navy or air power to speak of Italy is reduced to being a german mouth piece. Vichy authorities are notified of the paratroopers but dismiss the report. The Axis Second USSR swedish diplohit +9%. USA rushes tanks to Egypt, upsetting Inönü (but not enough to resume chrome shipments to Germany).



Christolos -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/7/2018 2:15:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LLv34Mika

1. it takes too much time for Axis ships to get into or out of the medeterranean sea. There are just not enough loop hexes. Just two loop hexes mean that you need 5 turns or even more to get your fleet out into the Atlantic. AND it gives the allied player a very comfortable situation. You only have to fear two ships at once from that side. Sure, there can be a wolfpack of subs waiting to protect the incoming Italians but again that seems very risky to me. All in all there is much more to lose than you can win.

2. Just protect those loop hexes. A few ships there can show you what is going on. Two UK subs sitting ON the hex fields prevent everything. If someone thinks going through the street of Gibraltar was very risky in WW2 you might also know that a big part of the Italian fleet was sunk before and the British had many ships there protecting this important passage.

Demanding to make it harder to get through is easy... not so easy is sinking most of the Reggia Marina to make it "easy" to protect Gibraltar. WW2 should not be our reference all the time. Especially not the more the game continues. Poland and France surrendered very fast but then the first strategic errors started. Comparing this game with history would mean that every player would have to repeat all errors made on both sides.

quote:

IIRC.


+1

C



Ktonos -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/7/2018 3:37:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Christolos


quote:

ORIGINAL: LLv34Mika

1. it takes too much time for Axis ships to get into or out of the medeterranean sea. There are just not enough loop hexes. Just two loop hexes mean that you need 5 turns or even more to get your fleet out into the Atlantic. AND it gives the allied player a very comfortable situation. You only have to fear two ships at once from that side. Sure, there can be a wolfpack of subs waiting to protect the incoming Italians but again that seems very risky to me. All in all there is much more to lose than you can win.

2. Just protect those loop hexes. A few ships there can show you what is going on. Two UK subs sitting ON the hex fields prevent everything. If someone thinks going through the street of Gibraltar was very risky in WW2 you might also know that a big part of the Italian fleet was sunk before and the British had many ships there protecting this important passage.

Demanding to make it harder to get through is easy... not so easy is sinking most of the Reggia Marina to make it "easy" to protect Gibraltar. WW2 should not be our reference all the time. Especially not the more the game continues. Poland and France surrendered very fast but then the first strategic errors started. Comparing this game with history would mean that every player would have to repeat all errors made on both sides.

quote:

IIRC.


+1

C


I didn't want to respond as it would misdirect the thread from an AAR. But if the answer keeps popping up it already has. So,

1. It takes too much time to bring the whole Axis fleet. But bringing 2 subs, and next turn 2 German battleships in the Med can be devastating depending on the timing.

2. UK will always be at a disadvantage protecting the loop hexes as the German player can always defeat her in detail. Lets see what happens. German moves a sub to the loophex, only to find that it was guarded by a destroyer and a heavy cruiser. Whatever happens next turn, the German will not lose the sub. In fact damage is going to be in favor of the Axis in that minor skirmish, MPP wise at least. As a UK player what do you expect in the following turns? The German knows what defends the straits and can move a fleet there with the perfect composition to destroy the defending ships. UK player can only reinforce the straits to an extent that he creates another battlegroup. And that would defeat the purpose of owning the straights. Or he can just concede and evacuate the hexes.



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/7/2018 3:50:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ktonos

I didn't want to respond as it would misdirect the thread from an AAR. But if the answer keeps popping up it already has. So,

1. It takes too much time to bring the whole Axis fleet. But bringing 2 subs, and next turn 2 German battleships in the Med can be devastating depending on the timing.

2. UK will always be at a disadvantage protecting the loop hexes as the German player can always defeat her in detail. Lets see what happens. German moves a sub to the loophex, only to find that it was guarded by a destroyer and a heavy cruiser. Whatever happens next turn, the German will not lose the sub. In fact damage is going to be in favor of the Axis in that minor skirmish, MPP wise at least. As a UK player what do you expect in the following turns? The German knows what defends the straits and can move a fleet there with the perfect composition to destroy the defending ships. UK player can only reinforce the straits to an extent that he creates another battlegroup. And that would defeat the purpose of owning the straights. Or he can just concede and evacuate the hexes.



It's fine to talk about these things in the AAR. AFAIK these are read by Bill and Hubert who always appreciate the brain storming.



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/7/2018 10:20:35 PM)

September 41

The DAK besiege Alexandria. The defender counter vs the battle weary italians. The UK put their new american tanks to good use and harass the artillery, forcing it to withdraw. The Canadians in Palermo receive a change in orders: Hold your ground. As long as they hold the city, the german paratroopers won't have enough supplies to paradrop to Tunisia. The USSR continues its orderly withdrawal, no units killed last turn. USA are getting worried at the Axis incursion into Egypt, mobilisation rise to 70%.

[image]http://farm1.staticflickr.com/966/41242996314_13bd46ee4c_b.jpg[/image]



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/8/2018 10:40:00 PM)

I apologise for the sluggish pace of the AAR. [:)] Normally Sugar and I are known for our high output of turns per day. I had a 2 week slower stretch which concluded last Friday, but now it's Sugar's turn to be on a lower output. Probably a bit of bad timing! [:)]



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/9/2018 8:10:31 AM)

1941/9/23

Mud in Russia. Ukraine mines are overrun and germans are approaching Dnepropetrovsk and Smolensk. Leningrad is chilling. Alexandria corp is destroyed. The DAK tries to cut off the UK HQ in Egypt via a paradrop in El Arish and the brits try a breakout.

UK corp and reconnaissance unit finally start the siege of Baghdad. USSR gets a 22% diplo hit with Sweden and the ore convoy stops. Had like 6 tech finish at the same time this turn. [X(]



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/9/2018 10:29:55 PM)

October 15, 1941

Palermo is evacuated. Inf tech 2 starts to appear in Russia. Egypt is captured by the germans and Franco is impressed by Axis gain in the med. German paratrooper moves to Gaza to close the trap on the British units... but is later met the UK reserve force and is bombed and tanked to death in low supply. The DAK is hot on his tail but the British HQ may yet escape...

[image]http://farm1.staticflickr.com/965/41104411935_0538e89fc1_b.jpg[/image]

Weather was cooperative in the last few turns... lets hope it continues! [:'(]



Ktonos -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/9/2018 11:51:37 PM)

Whats Greece & Turkey diplo status?



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/10/2018 12:03:19 AM)

Greece is over 80% allied

Turkey a couple of % allied leaning.

I've thought about diploing greece but frankly all that would achieve is provide a nice training ground for the Axis. UK is too cash starved to worry about upgrading the Greek army.



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/11/2018 3:19:20 AM)

November 41

Axis creeping up a few more km before the weather freezes the battlefield for winter. German Tank level 3 make their appearance, allied engineers work double shift to catch up.

Baghdad siege still ongoing. The recon and the corp besieging the city win ex aquo the worst unit ever award. (I didn't catch if Germany sponsored the defenders or not)

I'll have a more in dept recap at year's close, promise! :)



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/13/2018 2:04:37 AM)

Dec 41, Last allied turn of '41

Axis harass the rear of the UK column retreating to (still rebellious!) Iraq, catch a wounded AA and HQ on the tail end (the later in supply at least). Weather wet and muddy but yet no snow in Russia. USA joins Allies and bribes Greece to join. (Bummer I was hoping it wouldn't fire right away!)

The bulk of the german and russian army have yet to face each other...
[image]http://farm1.staticflickr.com/952/41169956425_023ed534f5_b.jpg[/image]

Income

Germany 980mpp
Italy 120mpp
Axis total: 1100mpp

USA 430mpp
UK 265mpp
USSR 815mpp
Allied total: 1510mpp

Unit count (Pre-Siberian)
[image]http://farm1.staticflickr.com/943/42069789161_e305554183_b.jpg[/image]

Tech Race

[image]http://farm1.staticflickr.com/904/40262440520_e476e8359f_b.jpg[/image]
[image]http://farm1.staticflickr.com/908/40262439940_82d74d3a42_b.jpg[/image]
[image]http://farm1.staticflickr.com/979/40262439420_c916cd5629_b.jpg[/image]
[image]http://farm1.staticflickr.com/944/40262438920_bb4c4e9b01_b.jpg[/image]
[image]http://farm1.staticflickr.com/948/28197245708_ae7539d508_b.jpg[/image]



PvtBenjamin -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/13/2018 11:14:03 AM)

As ridiculous as it sounds I move the two units surrounding Baghdad every turn. In the past I have felt the surrender decision gets stuck if you don't. Probably Psychological.



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/13/2018 11:25:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PvtBenjamin

As ridiculous as it sounds I move the two units surrounding Baghdad every turn. In the past I have felt the surrender decision gets stuck if you don't. Probably Psychological.


Might have to try that because its hurting my income a lot. [X(]



Ktonos -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/13/2018 12:00:29 PM)

And here I thought that you must have them stand still or it won't fire. The probability is 75% per turn if the German supported the regime, isn't it?




PvtBenjamin -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/13/2018 12:22:57 PM)

I think the probability of hitting 75% for 8 turns is 10%.

By moving I mean moving to different adjacent hexes by Baghdad.



Taxman66 -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/13/2018 2:09:49 PM)

It's only a 25% chance if he does support them.
Still 8 turns seems excessive (unless it is only checking on Allied turns?)



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/13/2018 4:27:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

It's only a 25% chance if he does support them.
Still 8 turns seems excessive (unless it is only checking on Allied turns?)


I'm thinking it's just at the end of my turns. I don't recall seeing it trigger on an Axis turn.



Taxman66 -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/13/2018 5:10:38 PM)

I'm pretty sure it works that way too.




Dorky8 -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/14/2018 7:57:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

It's only a 25% chance if he does support them.
Still 8 turns seems excessive (unless it is only checking on Allied turns?)






Is he is calculating the opponents chance? Calculating not getting 25% for 8 turns is morecomlicated



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/15/2018 3:34:50 AM)

March 1942

The siege is taking too long, so Iraq is conquered the old fashioned way. Greece declare war on the Axis and find Italian and German units ready at the border. Papagos HQ and a corp are withdrawn by transport to set up defenses in Athens. Before leaving Papagos orders some of his forces to march into Albania to embarrass Mussolini. Churchill sends UK troops to his new ally, which bolster Greek resolve against would-be invaders.

German force approach Leningrad from the South, joining the finns in the siege of the city. Soviet winter strike, getting the USSR some reprieve. An Army scores a draw vs a tech 3 tank going 2:2. Siberians are still a no-show.

[image]http://farm1.staticflickr.com/829/41218490705_cf21d18e3b_b.jpg[/image]

Also visible, still neutral Estonia.



room -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/15/2018 7:14:28 AM)

Is the soviet fleet no more?



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/15/2018 10:18:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: room

Is the soviet fleet no more?


In the black sea, the fleet is intact. In the baltic, the sub managed to escape and hide.



Dorky8 -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/15/2018 7:34:58 PM)

who is winning?



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/15/2018 7:53:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorky8

who is winning?


I'll let others weight in on this, as to not jinx myself. [sm=00000280.gif]



Dorky8 -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/15/2018 7:55:58 PM)

Just a little hard to figure out as a casual observer.



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