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Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Two questions about a West Coast invasion (5/2/2018 12:14:17 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: von Beanie
Thank you for all of the information. The landing forces arrived in Astoria and Portland on the first day I discovered there were enemy troops nearby. I can't rail troops in there because I would have to spend a couple of days putting them in strategic mode first. Although I won't lose the cities until next turn, dozens of air unit shells have suddenly appeared along with numerous army divisions in places like Salt Lake City. However, I also learned that I would have to spend political points to use any of them, and many of the new air units, outside of the U.S.
The Kaiser shipyard post is interesting. I briefly looked at the list of ship arrivals in the game scheduled to arrive in Portland, and I would guesstimate I will lose over 200 Ak, over 100 TK, 80 SC, 20 LST, 10 APA in addition to about 60 CVE. Thus I'm inclined to just let the Japanese try to run their new US colony like they are trying to run China.
In the future I will garrison all west coast cities starting on Turn 1. A more practical solution might be for the game designers to create reasonable garrisons for these super-vital national security locations when designing the basic scenarios. In reality, the loss of Astoria and Portland would not have led to the demise of the US Navy and such a surrender, but I'm impressed my opponent was able to surprise me with a decisive move I didn't even know was possible.
I wasn't going to weigh in here since I exhausted my interest in the Emergency Reinforcement system seven years ago. But some things have been said that can't just sit there for newbies to read.
As you have seen, Japan landing anywhere in CONUS, and a few offshore islands (country code determined), will trigger the ER package. The trigger mechanism is hard-coded in the EXE. However, the package(s) (OZ, NZ, India, and yes, Japan's as well) are exposed in the editor and can be altered. The CONUS ER package is immense, as you have also seen. The air units are not all fully filled out, but some are. In total they are a massive infusion of air power onto North America to counter a Japan effort at the end of a tenuous thread. The land forces are also a Thor's hammer. While restricted, they can be used now and later with PPs and some planning. And the SLC "convoy dump," which takes three days, has a huge shopping list of free devices, including 300 1942 US Army infantry squads, a couple hundred new tanks, huge stores of 57mm AT guns (a bottleneck all the way through on ID upgrades), and much more.
In January 1942 this boon is immense and can catapult the Allied work in 1942 ahead by many months, or more. The air units are pulled forward by six months, yes. It is an error to state that the entire Allied air OOB is moved forward by six months. I don't know where that idea came from.
Is any of this enough to stop a decapitation at Portland if nothing has been done in the month you were granted? Nope.
You can argue that taking out Portland for a day would not have sacrificed Portland's future production unto 1946, but them's the breaks of the code. Ships in the queue go bye-bye. Since the Allies can't stop, accelerate, or alter ship arrivals at all, the code sees 100% as in the queue and destructible. It's a game of abstractions.
Is landing at Portland "gamey"? No. It is in the game design for good reasons, as described in detail by dev Blackhorse, who did much or all of the land OOB research. Andy Mac did the packages, and has also weighed in. All ancient threads, but they're still there. The risk of both a CONUS thrust as well as the same at Japan are part of the what-if design decision. In my Lokasenna game I tried to hit the HI with a regiment to destroy key aviation factories in the very early game. I didn't quite bring enough oomph, but if it had worked it would have been painful.
Is it inevitable that Portland be lost? In your case here it is probable it will happen, yes, but it didn't have to. You had a month. There are more than enough white-restricted LCUs on the WC on 12/8/41 to get Portland a garrison. I do it; most Allied players who read the forum do it too. And build forts. Everything with engineers needs to be digging from Day 1. I don't begin WC AF or ports until that base has Forts 3 or better. Portland could easily have Forts 3 right now, and an ID-plus in residence. That would give you plenty of time to get the ER package on trains in SLC and move them to engage. Japan's landing force would be wiped out to a man while also NOT doing whatever jobs they should have been doing way over to the west.
Defend CONUS. It's pretty simple and is something that can be done right away.
For me, if I lost Portland at the date you're at, I'd send congrats to my opponent and resign. As others have said, in the game models the CVEs are vital to conduct mid- and late-war ops. LBA is too overpowered in the game to conduct landings without them. Rather than spend 3-4 real-time years playing this thing out to its inevitable, I'd take the lesson and re-start. Maybe with a different opponent, maybe not. That's your call. But if you lose Portland you're probably toast. I don't know the Japanese equivalent. Maybe losing all engine production for the Zero line? Anyway, it's very, very bad.
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