FBD Bug (Full Version)

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Joneleth -> FBD Bug (5/5/2018 2:44:37 AM)

Can anyone tell me why I cant repair this hex? Its in the baltics, its a continuation of a railroad line, its 6 Hexes from the railhead.


imgur dot com/a/IsZ6Fa0



STEF78 -> RE: FBD Bug (5/5/2018 9:46:12 AM)

you didn't use the right way to insert your picture

see below

[img]https://i.imgur.com/kaFbjDi.jpg[/img]




Telemecus -> RE: FBD Bug (5/5/2018 12:34:21 PM)

Embedded for Joneleth - I copied the right link from their imgur upload so they can see what needs to be done for here - hope this helps!

[image]https://i.imgur.com/PnNsjbQ.png[/image]



Joneleth -> RE: FBD Bug (5/5/2018 3:46:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

you didn't use the right way to insert your picture

see below




I cant insert embed or link pictures because my account is less than a week old.



Denniss -> RE: FBD Bug (5/5/2018 9:05:00 PM)

Rail link to west is not visible so hard to tell what the issue may be.
Game version ?



Joneleth -> RE: FBD Bug (5/5/2018 9:41:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

Rail link to west is not visible so hard to tell what the issue may be.
Game version ?


There is no rail link to the west, the rail is coming from Kaunas, the game version is 1.11.00



Denniss -> RE: FBD Bug (5/5/2018 10:40:40 PM)

I count 7 yellow hexes between your position and last working rail hex so you were lucky to even reach this position. Offrail hex calc must be wrong.



Joneleth -> RE: FBD Bug (5/5/2018 10:52:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

I count 7 yellow hexes between your position and last working rail hex so you were lucky to even reach this position. Offrail hex calc must be wrong.


The range requirements doesnt follow the railroad line, it goes in bird flight line. I could have repaired 20 hexes as long as they all are 6 range from a railhead.



Telemecus -> RE: FBD Bug (5/6/2018 1:06:06 PM)

Was the rail in the hex one to the east of Kaunas repaired this turn or last turn?



Joneleth -> RE: FBD Bug (5/6/2018 3:44:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Was the rail in the hex one to the east of Kaunas repaired this turn or last turn?


This turn.



Telemecus -> RE: FBD Bug (5/6/2018 3:56:08 PM)

That might be the problem. If Kaunas is not repaired last turn but only this turn, and similarly for the hex south east of Kaunas, then there is no rail line already repaired within 6 hexes this turn?



Joneleth -> RE: FBD Bug (5/6/2018 4:20:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

That might be the problem. If Kaunas is not repaired last turn but only this turn, and similarly for the hex south east of Kaunas, then there is no rail line already repaired within 6 hexes this turn?


Kaunas was repaired last turn and is the rail head, as you can see in the pop up window the hex in question is within 6 range of Kaunas and should thus be eligible for repair.



Joneleth -> RE: FBD Bug (5/7/2018 2:53:14 PM)

Anyone?



Michael T -> RE: FBD Bug (5/7/2018 8:54:13 PM)

quote:

The range requirements doesnt follow the railroad line, it goes in bird flight line. I could have repaired 20 hexes as long as they all are 6 range from a railhead.


It doesn't work that way. I spent many hours back in the day optimizing rail conversion. You can only squeeze in an extra hex here and there these days. When the game first came out and for a while after, you could do stuff like you describe. But the devs cleaned it up a lot since then. These days there is not a lot of juice left in the rail conversion process.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: FBD Bug (5/7/2018 11:15:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

quote:

The range requirements doesnt follow the railroad line, it goes in bird flight line. I could have repaired 20 hexes as long as they all are 6 range from a railhead.


It doesn't work that way. I spent many hours back in the day optimizing rail conversion. You can only squeeze in an extra hex here and there these days. When the game first came out and for a while after, you could do stuff like you describe. But the devs cleaned it up a lot since then. These days there is not a lot of juice left in the rail conversion process.


Michael is correct that they cleaned a great deal up of the silliness early on in WITE. I remember them well. But so is the snippet on what Michaels reply is on that poster is correct too. The delimiting factor is the FBD's to convert such hexes in the Baltic States (I am assuming that is where it is at since 6 range was said (you can even get 7 hexes converted in a few places at times which I have posted a few times in my AAR's on that). But that poster is 100% correct that he could have repaired 20 hexes if they were contiguous connected rail hexes all within the range of the railhead in any direction as the delimiting factors. Unfortunately, you don't have the luxury of a lot of FBD's to do such acts and most times Germans are sending these FBD's as fast as possible east.



Joneleth -> RE: FBD Bug (5/8/2018 8:57:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

quote:

The range requirements doesnt follow the railroad line, it goes in bird flight line. I could have repaired 20 hexes as long as they all are 6 range from a railhead.


It doesn't work that way. I spent many hours back in the day optimizing rail conversion. You can only squeeze in an extra hex here and there these days. When the game first came out and for a while after, you could do stuff like you describe. But the devs cleaned it up a lot since then. These days there is not a lot of juice left in the rail conversion process.


Cleaned up how? I dont mind they change the mechanics but what are the rules for rail repair then? Because its not 6 rail hexes in a continiously line, i have 8 in that picture, and it cant be range from railhead because both the one i cant repair and the one i did repair is same range away. So what exactly are the rules for rail repair?



Michael T -> RE: FBD Bug (5/8/2018 9:05:38 PM)

I don't know. I tried to reverse engineer the algorithm they must use but I could not figure it all out completely. Suffice to day that it is pointless placing two FBD's on a single line anymore, which I believe was the intent of the devs.



Denniss -> RE: FBD Bug (5/8/2018 9:39:05 PM)

I seed 4! FBDs within two hexes - someone tried turbo conversion to reach Leningrad early ?



Michael T -> RE: FBD Bug (5/8/2018 9:46:28 PM)

I am thinking this must be a test case and not from a real game. Surely?



Joneleth -> RE: FBD Bug (5/9/2018 5:34:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I am thinking this must be a test case and not from a real game. Surely?


Yea its a test game, but it seems very arbitrary when you can convert 6 or when you can convert 7 or 8. I was hoping for some consistency.



morvael -> RE: FBD Bug (5/9/2018 9:23:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

I count 7 yellow hexes between your position and last working rail hex so you were lucky to even reach this position. Offrail hex calc must be wrong.


It's as the crow flies, not along rail :)



morvael -> RE: FBD Bug (5/9/2018 10:12:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T
Suffice to day that it is pointless placing two FBD's on a single line anymore, which I believe was the intent of the devs.


Two may be good in bad weather / terrain (mud / Caucasus). This allows to repair 1-2 extra hexes per turn compare to just one FBD. In good weather it will not help much.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: FBD Bug (5/9/2018 12:41:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I am thinking this must be a test case and not from a real game. Surely?


Surely it can be done and has been done. I have done the same thing in real games with explanations. Just need to read the AAR's I did.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: FBD Bug (5/9/2018 12:42:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael


quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

I count 7 yellow hexes between your position and last working rail hex so you were lucky to even reach this position. Offrail hex calc must be wrong.


It's as the crow flies, not along rail :)


Correct, I said the same thing above but you put a nice twist to it Morvael for a visual :)



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: FBD Bug (5/9/2018 12:45:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T
Suffice to day that it is pointless placing two FBD's on a single line anymore, which I believe was the intent of the devs.


Two may be good in bad weather / terrain (mud / Caucasus). This allows to repair 1-2 extra hexes per turn compare to just one FBD. In good weather it will not help much.


Going across rivers is the biggest benefit of using two FBD's together to max out the rail going forward. The problem with WITE 1.0 is the middle area is painful to rail convert when other areas are so much more beneficial. Thus almost all the games you see the German FBD's are far north and south.



Telemecus -> RE: FBD Bug (5/9/2018 1:42:04 PM)

This is a common and repeat bug report - see for example http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4361197

There have been others before and likely will be many others to come. Whatever the rights and wrongs of allowing Axis to convert more or less rails, it would be fair to know what they are allowed to repair. I guess there is no way of explaining these with the current published rules and patch notes. Given the number and repeat nature of these enquiries it might be worth those with access to the code base getting to a final definitive answer?



morvael -> RE: FBD Bug (5/9/2018 2:14:57 PM)

Imagine they need some kind of supplies to reach them from working railhead via trucks. This means the limit doesn't have to be calculated along rail, as the trucks do not use it.



Joneleth -> RE: FBD Bug (5/9/2018 4:10:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

Imagine they need some kind of supplies to reach them from working railhead via trucks. This means the limit doesn't have to be calculated along rail, as the trucks do not use it.


I tried ending the turns a few time having multiple FBD in forward positions to be fully supplied and ready to repair, regardless of supply level you still cant repair that hex.



Telemecus -> RE: FBD Bug (5/9/2018 4:55:46 PM)

This early on I am sure it is not this - but just in case did you check the RRV?



Michael T -> RE: FBD Bug (5/9/2018 10:04:57 PM)

OP I recall spending many hours studying the very same area (hexes) you have in the test example. I pondered the same question. In the end you just have to let it go and move on. It's been like that for a long time and the algorithm for hex conversion remains a mystery. Probably even GG couldn't explain it completely now.



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