Question on disbanding (Full Version)

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Joneleth -> Question on disbanding (5/6/2018 12:12:30 AM)

If your playing as soviet and in turn 1 you have some tank divisions with 300-500 tanks each that is garanteed to be pocketed next turn, is it worth it to disband them to retain the 1000-1500 tanks, or does the fact that you lose the division template from disbanding which you would get back if surrendered mean that it isnt worth it?


EDIT: Extra question, is there any difference between all the different types of soviet air bases or is it just a cosmetic name? I couldnt find anything about this anywhere.



beender -> RE: Question on disbanding (5/6/2018 1:40:03 AM)

Its definitely worth disbanding if only you could do that. Very often you wouldn't have that opportunity.

Airbases names are mostly decorations, except only VVS airbases can serve partisans. Also, SAD get automatically phased out in time.



Telemecus -> RE: Question on disbanding (5/6/2018 1:02:52 PM)

There are rules to stop disbanding such as being close to enemy units that might prevent you from disbanding. As Soviets you can create new units too, so losing them is not a total loss. Although there is still a cost. My guess is if you can keep tanks you will definitely want (like light tanks) you will definitely want to. If they are tanks that will stay piled up in a pool (like T34 for many) you may not be gaining much.

(OSNAZ also supplies partisans and SAD cannot get guards status)



56ajax -> RE: Question on disbanding (5/7/2018 3:50:13 AM)

For the first 2 years of the game assume all Soviet Armor is useless and that every unit will be pocketed and destroyed.

With that in mind, reduce the TOE across the board and even further for those units which will be pocketed. This may send some elements back to the pools but will stop replacements going to soon to be lost units.

As for the Airbases, as already stated in previous posts, but note there is a SAB base which gets auto disbanded as it is a type of SAD.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Question on disbanding (5/7/2018 12:59:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

There are rules to stop disbanding such as being close to enemy units that might prevent you from disbanding. As Soviets you can create new units too, so losing them is not a total loss. Although there is still a cost. My guess is if you can keep tanks you will definitely want (like light tanks) you will definitely want to. If they are tanks that will stay piled up in a pool (like T34 for many) you may not be gaining much.

(OSNAZ also supplies partisans and SAD cannot get guards status)



You are gaining the "TRUCKS" as the #1 thing. Said this many times :)



Michael T -> RE: Question on disbanding (5/7/2018 8:58:44 PM)

It's bad to disband anything in the early turns playing as Soviet, unless the German is crap. You need every unit for your defence. Once the crisis of the first few turns are over you might consider disbanding if the war is going well. Saving thousands of BT7's etc is not really worth anything, the units ZOC is what is really valuable.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Question on disbanding (5/7/2018 11:30:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

It's bad to disband anything in the early turns playing as Soviet, unless the German is crap. You need every unit for your defence. Once the crisis of the first few turns are over you might consider disbanding if the war is going well. Saving thousands of BT7's etc is not really worth anything, the units ZOC is what is really valuable.


Thats not true IMO that it is bad to disband anything in the early turns. If you have units that you can disband that otherwise could NOT get to safety or be useful in some way in the first few turns then, by all means, disband those units.(i.e. armor stuck in a swamp)

There are things to disband but not until turn 3ish depending on what you are trying to accomplish.



tyronec -> RE: Question on disbanding (5/8/2018 8:53:35 AM)

I think there is a case for disbanding a tank few divisions in the Ukraine that are going to be pocketed T2. Otherwise cannot see much opportunity to disband anything that could not otherwise retreat to safety, but if the situation arose then yes.



Michael T -> RE: Question on disbanding (5/8/2018 9:27:41 PM)

When facing crack German players, believe me, you need every unit. In WITE a single unit with 10 tanks has the same zoc effect as a unit with 1000 tanks. *IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING* that of course disband units that are otherwise in doomed situations (like trapped in a swamp). But disbanding units that are otherwise healthy and potentially useful in the line is foolish and ill advised. Trying to save a few trucks or some useless tanks might cost you and entire front or a city full of industry.

My advice to any Soviet is keep every unit in the front and do a job with it, whether directly defending a hex or simply as a zoc blocker. If some unit is stuck in the swamp and with no possible chance of escape, yeah disband.

When facing competent German players you will treat every unit as gold when things get tight around August/September.

Any Soviet who advices disbanding non doomed units in the early period of the game has clearly never faced a crack German player or is covertly working for the Germans LOL

I am talking about ground units, not air bases or HQ's, just to be clear.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Question on disbanding (5/8/2018 9:58:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

When facing crack German players, believe me, you need every unit. In WITE a single unit with 10 tanks has the same zoc effect as a unit with 1000 tanks. *IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING* that of course disband units that are otherwise in doomed situations (like trapped in a swamp). But disbanding units that are otherwise healthy and potentially useful in the line is foolish and ill advised. Trying to save a few trucks or some useless tanks might cost you and entire front or a city full of industry.

My advice to any Soviet is keep every unit in the front and do a job with it, whether directly defending a hex or simply as a zoc blocker. If some unit is stuck in the swamp and with no possible chance of escape, yeah disband.

When facing competent German players you will treat every unit as gold when things get tight around August/September.


Now to find all the crack German players ;-). They are as scarce as hen's teeth these days.





HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Question on disbanding (5/8/2018 10:00:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

My advice to any Soviet is keep every unit in the front and do a job with it, whether directly defending a hex or simply as a zoc blocker.

I am talking about ground units, not air bases or HQ's, just to be clear.




Should have been clear since HQ's and Air Bases don't have ZOC, hehehehehehehe [:D]



thedoctorking -> RE: Question on disbanding (5/8/2018 11:18:07 PM)

Also, I should point out that the tanks you are saving by disbanding armored units in the first few turns are probably tanks you don't really want. Let the T-26's and BT-5's go out and get killed and maybe take a few German tanks with them.



Michael T -> RE: Question on disbanding (5/9/2018 12:30:02 AM)

quote:

Now to find all the crack German players ;-). They are as scarce as hen's teeth these days.


I thought consensus around here was game is horribly biased towards Germans so even average Germans are crack these days.



thedoctorking -> RE: Question on disbanding (5/9/2018 1:33:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

quote:

Now to find all the crack German players ;-). They are as scarce as hen's teeth these days.


I thought consensus around here was game is horribly biased towards Germans so even average Germans are crack these days.

Not in the least. My experience is that without really good play, the Germans bog down against averagely competent Soviet play. I think the current (beta) patch is pretty balanced.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Question on disbanding (5/9/2018 2:23:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

quote:

Now to find all the crack German players ;-). They are as scarce as hen's teeth these days.


I thought consensus around here was game is horribly biased towards Germans so even average Germans are crack these days.



I LOVE it, lets play word play on “crack”, since it was never established for a definition but used in highest regards in the first instance. I will digress there since it is looking like a conversation I would have with my wife twisting words. While we are at it lets do an assumption on the consensus of the balance of the game ;-p. Im with doctorking with the current balance of the game and can read my post that I have said on the matter.



Michael T -> RE: Question on disbanding (5/9/2018 9:55:21 PM)

Tyrone, I got your PM but I can't reply as your mailbox is full. Anyhow they have my details and I should be already on their list. So if they call I will be ready.



STEF78 -> RE: Question on disbanding (5/10/2018 7:06:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I thought consensus around here was game is horribly biased towards Germans so even average Germans are crack these days.


Nice to see you back! I always found you were about the 3 best players of WITE and was always impressed with your ability to keep on momentum.

Be careful about the "consensus", it is often biaised with single side players. Since you left the game there were at least 4 major changes hampering german logistics:
- 1 FBD left
- bombers can't be used as air supplier anymore
- HQBU limit is 20 hexes (instead 25)
- super mega Lvov Pocket is forbidden





beender -> RE: Question on disbanding (5/10/2018 7:52:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T


I thought consensus around here was game is horribly biased towards Germans so even average Germans are crack these days.


I am not sure whether game is "horribly biased" towards Germans(probably not that much), but I agree that a "crack" German player can finish the game in 1941 once and for all, whoever he faces. There is little Soviet players can do in that kind of situation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78


Nice to see you back! I always found you were about the 3 best players of WITE and was always impressed with your ability to keep on momentum.

Be careful about the "consensus", it is often biaised with single side players. Since you left the game there were at least 4 major changes hampering german logistics:
- 1 FBD left
- bombers can't be used as air supplier anymore
- HQBU limit is 20 hexes (instead 25)
- super mega Lvov Pocket is forbidden





This is interesting because i never know things used to be like this. As axis player i was quite happy to have a rumanian FBD joining. Also, what is super mega Lvov Pocket?





STEF78 -> Super mega lvov pocket (5/10/2018 9:01:05 AM)

Super mega Lvov Pocket is something like this....

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3381109&mpage=3&key=mktours

[img]https://i.imgur.com/f7PO9Sp.jpg[/img]



beender -> RE: Super mega lvov pocket (5/10/2018 9:07:27 AM)

Thanks for the screenshot. Not to stray away too far away from the thread, just one little follow-up question: why is such huge pocket forbidden, if it can be done at all?



STEF78 -> RE: Super mega lvov pocket (5/10/2018 9:18:13 AM)

no, german units cannot move in Romania until (I think, not sure) the 2/3 first turns or Romania is unfrozen.



Michael T -> RE: Super mega lvov pocket (5/10/2018 9:20:32 PM)

quote:

- 1 FBD left
- bombers can't be used as air supplier anymore
- HQBU limit is 20 hexes (instead 25)
- super mega Lvov Pocket is forbidden


Actually I did play under those conditions. So I guess not a huge amount has changed since I last played in late 2016. But my WITE 1.0 days are well and truly over. I wait in anticipation for WITE 2.0 and Steel Tigers. Still WITE 1.0 is easily the best *PC* wargame I have ever played.

Boy, the debates we had back in the day about so many aspects of WITE, the Lvov mega pocket being one of them. Lots of passionate people around back then.



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