HQ buildup exploit (Full Version)

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Kielec -> HQ buildup exploit (5/13/2018 4:12:38 PM)

How many of you have been doing this?

1. Get your whatever corps ready for HQ buildup,
2. Click a "useless" unit somewhere outside the corps and not close to the FOW or enemy ZOC (security, recon airfield, whatever) and move it 1 hex, undoable,
3. Go back to the HQ ready for buildup and go through the HQ buildup clicking,
4. Click "Undo"?


XXX What it does, is that you still have the HQ build up, lose the trucks and what not,
but the Admin Points go back to the bag; the "useless" unit moves back XXX



Djouk -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/13/2018 7:14:51 PM)

Don't knew this ... There are very good players at this game but i suspect some using some strange exploits. Consequences : super panzers making incredible breakthroughs fighting with no fatigue and impossible logistic...
An other exploit i found is to edit an original scenario/campaign, then "exploiting" parameters and saving it and to propose it as the original on game server for the hosting player.
Thanks to you.




No idea -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/13/2018 7:59:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kielec

How many of you have been doing this?

1. Get your whatever corps ready for HQ buildup,
2. Click a "useless" unit somewhere outside the corps and not close to the FOW or enemy ZOC (security, recon airfield, whatever) and move it 1 hex, undoable,
3. Go back to the HQ ready for buildup and go through the HQ buildup clicking,
4. Click "Undo"?


XXX What it does, is that you still have the HQ build up, lose the trucks and what not,
but the Admin Points go back to the bag; the "useless" unit moves back XXX


If it is like you say then it is a serious bug



timmyab -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/14/2018 12:33:59 AM)

lol I wonder how long this has been going on for. Great spot, thanks for reporting it.



thedoctorking -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/14/2018 5:11:49 AM)

I heard that the new patch had been sent off to be distributed, but this would certainly be worth revising it further.

I tested it and the OP appears to be correct. Hitting the undo key refunds the AP but does not change the supply status of the affected units. They also continue to have 0 movement points remaining. I couldn't figure out what effect the HQBU had in the logistics phase.



Djouk -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/14/2018 9:41:10 AM)

Kielec helped me to find the good cheating method, he was very near truth. Only this could explain from what i was victim ...

1. Move a unit from a HQ you want to buildup, i recommend only 1 hex of the unit most in the rear to avoid interdiction which unable undo move.
2. Go BuildUp the HQ.
3. Undo last move.
4. Until now all is normal because admin points go back.
5. But at the start of next turn your HQ has buildup for free !
6. You can do that as many time you want in a turn. This affects your motor pool but give you super powers.
7. Moreover i suppose amount of vehicules you lost with HQ build is regain by all you can take in bigger pockets.

Until not corrected it s useless playing in multiplayer



weinsoldner -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/14/2018 10:17:34 AM)

As long as both players play by the rules I see no reason not to play a multiplayer game



Djouk -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/14/2018 11:00:40 AM)

As long as you have fun and believe in honesty of your opponent or in humain being [:D], why not.



beender -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/14/2018 11:02:07 AM)

this is a serious bug. perhaps calls for a immediate fix.



Michael T -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/14/2018 8:56:03 PM)

I find it hard to believe that these cheats are possible in Server games. If so they must have been recently introduced bugs as surely they would have been unearthed a long time ago. As an aside, I thought, IIRC that the undo button was disabled in Server games? I also thought that tampering with scenario files in server games was blocked?

Are you sure these cheats are possible in server games?

Hot seat or straight up PBEM is always a journey in to the unknown which is why I only ever played server based games.



Djouk -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/14/2018 10:20:11 PM)

I prefer multi player games too and was very sad to discover theses at my detriment. During a long time i was confident about integrity of this game.

Undo is available on multiplayer. Should just need some little tests but i'm pretty sure this works on multi, this is not a god mod or hidden tip voluntary made by designers. In consequence i believe this exploit exists from native version of the game.

Look like less impressive on some scenarios the full benefit is for Axis campaign in 41 where with this tip Leningrad/Moscow may be taken very very quickly.

For exotics original scenarios just edit for example Campaign 41/45 then modify it save it and propose it on server. You can rename but to lure just use the same name than the orignal. Restriction is that other players must have
your extensions.

For example I suspect an opponent to have increased growth of its forces, so at the end of 1942 he had more than 4 000 000 german soldiers (not counting its allies) and even loosing nearly 2 000 000. Sorry but all become possible after that.
Moreover how to explain that in this same 41/45 bitter end campaign i had not a single SU-2 dive bomber and i have these in the new one in thé same version of game ?!





Michael T -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/14/2018 10:41:52 PM)

I am certain that 2by3 made changes to the server files that made it impossible to modify stock scenario's without the opponent at least getting a warning message. I would be surprised if this could be circumvented. Same holds for the undo button in server games. Please do run some tests for server games for both the cheats you have found.



timmyab -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/15/2018 2:26:42 AM)

The undo button does work in server games so I'm guessing that this exploit is currently active in MP games. Hard to believe it's been around for more than a patch or two though.



Michael T -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/15/2018 2:54:57 AM)

Does undo work in FOW games? Surely not?

I don't recall it working in any server games I played, buts that going back almost 2 years now.



thedoctorking -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/15/2018 3:40:48 AM)

Has anybody actually checked if this is possible in server games?

The undo button is available in games using fog of war, but only if the move did not reveal anything hidden by fog of war. The OP said that you need to make a move that is undoable, back behind the lines somewhere.

I verified that it does work in regular games, not on the server, and the expected supply advantage does seem to be happening.



Djouk -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/15/2018 9:30:59 AM)

I can already confirm Undo is easily available on multi player. Have you ever met what i call "intrusives ZOC" ?
I was rather well holding in pripet marsches. Then without axis breakthrough or any intrusion of enemy units in my rears and a good supply rail line all my units in marsches where surrounded by enemies ZOC and rails lines destroyed ... and so loosing marsches next turn...
May this be result of using HQ build every where on axis front at the same time !?!



Telemecus -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/15/2018 1:04:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Djouk
i had not a single SU-2 dive bomber and i have these in the new one ?!

Until a few patches ago there were only fighter bombers, level bombers and tac bombers - dive bombers was only recently introduced.



thedoctorking -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/15/2018 4:20:11 PM)

I think we can all agree that this is an exploit, a form of cheating, and not a legitimate game mechanic?

Also, I note that it does still deduct the vehicles from the Axis vehicle pool and does not restore them when "undo" is pressed. Therefore, the Axis can do this once or twice in the early going, but then they are going to be out of vehicles and supply in the winter is going to be awfully difficult. So maybe not quite the war-winning game-breaking exploit it appeared to be at first? Still, we shouldn't be doing it.



morvael -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/15/2018 8:37:41 PM)

It will be possible to disable undo after HQBU, but this will go into 1.11.03, not 1.11.02, as it's already in Matrix hands.

As for checking whether you're playing original or modified scenarios that is something complicated. I could probably add a function to help detecting this, but (as many things in this game) this could be easily circumvented if you know the tools (a bit of computer knowledge is required). Therefore such improvement would not be 100% safe. Afer all things like fetching scenarios from server or better encryption are out of the question. Too much work for such an old game with part-time support.



Michael T -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/15/2018 9:07:05 PM)

Well I am surprised by all this. I guess in the end you need honest people to disclose such discoveries. As obviously the cheaters would not make such knowledge public. I hope these things are not possible in WITE 2.0



Djouk -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/15/2018 9:38:37 PM)

Happy having help and to be heard, at first it was just suppositions, then convictions but i had no proofs... i was waiting them. Without them i admit i was going to incriminate last patchs because i also saw that some players found axis overpowered. Now i understand why.



thedoctorking -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/15/2018 9:53:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

It will be possible to disable undo after HQBU, but this will go into 1.11.03, not 1.11.02, as it's already in Matrix hands.

As for checking whether you're playing original or modified scenarios that is something complicated. I could probably add a function to help detecting this, but (as many things in this game) this could be easily circumvented if you know the tools (a bit of computer knowledge is required). Therefore such improvement would not be 100% safe. Afer all things like fetching scenarios from server or better encryption are out of the question. Too much work for such an old game with part-time support.

You couldn't do a quick beta bugfix patch?



Michael T -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/15/2018 11:19:02 PM)

Well there have been numerous 'cheats/exploits' disclosed since release. I have found and reported publically a few myself. The worst being the one where your opponent (in server game) could actually get in to your OOB and disband any unit he liked! I was victim myself. Anyway I thought after all these years things like the 'undo HQBU' cheat you found would have been found long ago by an honest type. But there you go. Well done.



Djouk -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/16/2018 8:47:50 PM)

Nice work Michael. Morvael would it be hard to program with objective you can use editor with what you want but you can't save any game above all on server with names of officials scenarios/campaigns ?



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/17/2018 9:48:36 AM)

@Kielec: A very good find Kielec, and this is not one of the "trivial" cheats/exploits. If you regularly find such things and enjoy searching them, I can only recommend you to register yourself for some Alpha/Beta-Testing here on Matrix!
One hint though, when it comes to such cheats that can't be detected by the "victim" of it (the opponent of the cheater), I believe it is better to PM/or E-Mail morvael personally (he is very busy and sometimes cannot reply immediately, but always friendly and willing to fix things!). On this way, it is going to be fixed, but you are not tempting people. At least that was my way to handle such things for the reports I submitted.

@All: My opponent pointed me to the thread here, suggesting to wait for a hotfix. My proposal for a workaround was taking screenshots of the Panzercorp Mps at the end of the Axis turn and at the beginning of the next turn showing the supply detail window+a listing of my AP use, which he will get with a delay of 4 turns.
Maybe a pro-cheater can still hide his action with this, but I believe that should make cheating very difficult. Just as a suggestion to other people in the same situation and curious what other ideas you have for workarounds until a patch fixes this.




56ajax -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/17/2018 10:02:34 AM)

All very interesting but have we found the exploit that makes german tanks invincible?



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/17/2018 10:23:12 AM)

What exploit re invincible German tanks do you mean? You mean they generally take not enough losses?

(under exploit I understand something that the player can do to get an extra advantage by using the game engine in a creative way/very optimized way, producing results much better than the developer intended. If it is just a malfunction of the game engine that can't be enabled/disabled by the player, it would rather call it a bug. In comparison, a cheat for me is using the game in way not wanted by the designers, gaining a major advantage. Examples are reloading, file manipulation or this HQBU cheat. Sorry for digressing here but I prefer to make sure we have the same understanding of words first).

IMO combat losses are too low for the Germans but it is the same way for the Soviets after the extra losses cease in September 1941 so it is unrealistic, but has no effect on play balance, which for me usually is a greater concern if there is no major redesign of the game component possible.




Crackaces -> RE: HQ buildup exploit (5/17/2018 4:50:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 56ajax

All very interesting but have we found the exploit that makes german tanks invincible?


I am a German fanboy ...

The battle report is only one indice of the total losses. A good counterattack that pushes armor across a major river or 2 ZOC's will show good losses accumulated during the logitics phase. To an EvK counteratack in the 8MP game one unit lost 50 tanks although about 10 was reported in the battle report.



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