Fastest Method to get Air Radar on IJN Ships

Fastest Method to get Air Radar on IJN Ships (Full Version)

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specie1 -> Fastest Method to get Air Radar on IJN Ships (6/6/2018 12:06:21 AM)
I am playing my first PBEM as Japan in Scenario #2 and I can use some help. It appears to me that the fastest way to get air radar on any of my ships is to convert some of my Kamikaze DDs to APDs. Then the first upgrade of the Kamikaze APD gets the Type 13 Air Radar in 12/42. Does that sound right? Am I missing something? Is this radar any good? If I disband an APD in port will it help the base defend against air attacks? Or should it be in a TF? Any recommendatons would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

BBfanboy -> RE: Fastest Method to get Air Radar on IJN Ships (6/6/2018 4:32:22 AM)
I am not a Japanese side fan/player so I do not have much experience with this but I can offer thoughts based on Allied experience and other generalities: 1. The US can convert some DDs to APDs early in the game and gain better ASW, perhaps radar as well. It seems a worthwhile refit if the ship is more useful to you in other ways than just the radar. 2. Japanese radar is generally pretty weak, but better than nothing. 3. Disbanded ships have shut down their boilers. No power should mean no radar operation. AA guns might still be able to shoot if they do not require power to operate. Being in a TF (not docked) should be more effective in AA defence and gives the ship the chance to move to dodge bombs.

GetAssista -> RE: Fastest Method to get Air Radar on IJN Ships (6/6/2018 8:28:10 AM)
Japanese CVs get their airsearch radar upgrades in the middle of 42. And it is CV TFs that need airsearch radar most.

Dili -> RE: Fastest Method to get Air Radar on IJN Ships (6/6/2018 12:19:51 PM)
I think the kamikaze APD's have a slow speed - boiler taken out to give space - so they will not help you in fleet actions, also i am not sure if the radar they get is anti-ship or anti-aircraft. For your carriers that get them at mid 42 the anti-aircraft radar is the most important.

Chickenboy -> RE: Fastest Method to get Air Radar on IJN Ships (6/6/2018 12:42:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista Japanese CVs get their airsearch radar upgrades in the middle of 42. And it is CV TFs that need airsearch radar most. I think only Zuikaku and Shokaku get theirs at this early juncture. Most of the others have to wait until 4/43. As a JFB, I make sure to have one of these ships in any CVTF that I can. Their benefits are conferred to others in the TF. I think DD air search radars also have some conferred benefits to the carriers that they escort, but I'm not sure if this is 1:1 or if there's some delay or downgrading of the benefit due to the displacement from the carrier air wings.

BBfanboy -> RE: Fastest Method to get Air Radar on IJN Ships (6/6/2018 2:32:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chickenboy quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista Japanese CVs get their airsearch radar upgrades in the middle of 42. And it is CV TFs that need airsearch radar most. I think only Zuikaku and Shokaku get theirs at this early juncture. Most of the others have to wait until 4/43. As a JFB, I make sure to have one of these ships in any CVTF that I can. Their benefits are conferred to others in the TF. I think DD air search radars also have some conferred benefits to the carriers that they escort, but I'm not sure if this is 1:1 or if there's some delay or downgrading of the benefit due to the displacement from the carrier air wings. The OP was asking about converting Japanese DDs to APDs - any opinion on that? I don't know the relative utility of an APD vs an old DD for the Japanese player.

Dili -> RE: Fastest Method to get Air Radar on IJN Ships (6/6/2018 2:39:45 PM)
It depends on player strategy and needs. The type OP asked speed drops from 35 to 29, loses torpedo, cargo increases from 75, 75 to 250, 150. The choice is basically: more cargo or 4 torpedoes. Because AA increases and main gun qty decreases in every update of both paths. Also he should compare to other types that maybe or not better to be APD.

Chickenboy -> RE: Fastest Method to get Air Radar on IJN Ships (6/6/2018 4:05:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy quote: ORIGINAL: Chickenboy quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista Japanese CVs get their airsearch radar upgrades in the middle of 42. And it is CV TFs that need airsearch radar most. I think only Zuikaku and Shokaku get theirs at this early juncture. Most of the others have to wait until 4/43. As a JFB, I make sure to have one of these ships in any CVTF that I can. Their benefits are conferred to others in the TF. I think DD air search radars also have some conferred benefits to the carriers that they escort, but I'm not sure if this is 1:1 or if there's some delay or downgrading of the benefit due to the displacement from the carrier air wings. The OP was asking about converting Japanese DDs to APDs - any opinion on that? I don't know the relative utility of an APD vs an old DD for the Japanese player. I think your comments were on the mark. The advantage to be gained by 'pulling' air search radar forward on APDs is offset by the decreased functionality (read: slower speed) of the APD after refit. I'd not decrease my CVTF by 6 knots for that questionable net benefit.

Kull -> RE: Fastest Method to get Air Radar on IJN Ships (6/6/2018 4:22:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chickenboy I think your comments were on the mark. The advantage to be gained by 'pulling' air search radar forward on APDs is offset by the decreased functionality (read: slower speed) of the APD after refit. I'd not decrease my CVTF by 6 knots for that questionable net benefit. (Damn it !! You edited your post, and that lost my entire reply!!) Anyway..... Your original post confused the two types of DDs which can convert to APDs: 1) The Momi class DD conversion drops the speed from 32 to 18 and does NOT provide a radar upgrade. Definitely not worth doing. 2) The Minekaze class DD conversion drops the speed from 35 to 29 and DOES provide a radar upgrade in August '42. That is the only way for the Japanese to get radar-equipped escorts in 1942, and the speed reduction has no impact on your "Baby KB" TFs composed of CVLs and CVEs (nor even a TF containing CV Kaga). I wouldn't convert all the Minekazes, but 4-6 is certainly worth it.

Lokasenna -> RE: Fastest Method to get Air Radar on IJN Ships (6/6/2018 4:55:34 PM)
To the point of the thread, the first radars that I'm aware of are on Shokaku and Zuikaku. I think the rest of the CVs (including CVLs) get them in early 1943. I think the Kongos get radar around the same time as well. In general, the newest greatest biggest ships get radar first. quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy quote: ORIGINAL: Chickenboy quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista Japanese CVs get their airsearch radar upgrades in the middle of 42. And it is CV TFs that need airsearch radar most. I think only Zuikaku and Shokaku get theirs at this early juncture. Most of the others have to wait until 4/43. As a JFB, I make sure to have one of these ships in any CVTF that I can. Their benefits are conferred to others in the TF. I think DD air search radars also have some conferred benefits to the carriers that they escort, but I'm not sure if this is 1:1 or if there's some delay or downgrading of the benefit due to the displacement from the carrier air wings. The OP was asking about converting Japanese DDs to APDs - any opinion on that? I don't know the relative utility of an APD vs an old DD for the Japanese player. I don't do so on some, but do so on others. I think the Kamikaze-class are ones that I keep as DDs. They have good torpedoes. In some cases, I convert to APD because it gets them good DC's sooner. The Momi/Momo come to mind here. I might be wrong on that, but that's my recollection.

Kull -> RE: Fastest Method to get Air Radar on IJN Ships (6/6/2018 6:26:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna I don't do so on some, but do so on others. I think the Kamikaze-class are ones that I keep as DDs. They have good torpedoes. In some cases, I convert to APD because it gets them good DC's sooner. The Momi/Momo come to mind here. I might be wrong on that, but that's my recollection. Looking at them all: 1) The Momo (no APD option, just DD or E) never gets radar, nor even ASW until 6/43 2) The Momi class DD gets radar and good DC in 4/43, but the Momi class APD is horrible in every way. Major speed reduction, NEVER gets improved DC, no radar until 12/43. 3) Wakatake class DD/APD get improved DC and Radar in 2/43 4) Mutsuki and Kamikaze class APDs get Radar AND improved DC in 12/42. Speed drop from DD is only 35 to 29. The second best option too.... 5) Minekaze class APDs get Radar AND improved DC in 8/42 with a 35-to-29 speed drop. The clear champ. However, I suspect that early radar availability might be a "bug" since the Type 13 Radar device arrival date is 4/43, so it probably shouldn't be available until then. Edit - For DD-class escorts, the best for early radar are: 1) Akitsuki: Best by far as they gain Radar in 1/43 (already have top-of-the-line DC) and they have best-in-class range (8.3K). Plus, in 9/43 these gems acquire a second set of radar. 2) Mutsuki: Radar and better DC in 1/43. Only downside is the range (4K), but that's still better than all the APDs. 3) Shiratsuyu: Radar and better DC in 7/43. Decent range, too (6K). All the other DDs are 9/43 or later.

Lowpe -> RE: Fastest Method to get Air Radar on IJN Ships (6/6/2018 6:45:14 PM)
It always amazes me at how powerful radar is.... In my dababes game, the Kamikaze APD route doesn't grant radar. Akitsuki class DD get radar in Jan of 43, Tone in Feb of43, Zuikaku and her sis in 6/42. --- I recall in stock the Oyoda having radar from the get go, and it is type 21 which is active too. So accelerate her!

Chickenboy -> RE: Fastest Method to get Air Radar on IJN Ships (6/6/2018 7:10:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kull quote: ORIGINAL: Chickenboy I think your comments were on the mark. The advantage to be gained by 'pulling' air search radar forward on APDs is offset by the decreased functionality (read: slower speed) of the APD after refit. I'd not decrease my CVTF by 6 knots for that questionable net benefit. (Damn it !! You edited your post, and that lost my entire reply!!) Anyway..... Your original post confused the two types of DDs which can convert to APDs: 1) The Momi class DD conversion drops the speed from 32 to 18 and does NOT provide a radar upgrade. Definitely not worth doing. 2) The Minekaze class DD conversion drops the speed from 35 to 29 and DOES provide a radar upgrade in August '42. That is the only way for the Japanese to get radar-equipped escorts in 1942, and the speed reduction has no impact on your "Baby KB" TFs composed of CVLs and CVEs (nor even a TF containing CV Kaga). I wouldn't convert all the Minekazes, but 4-6 is certainly worth it. Ha! Too slow off the mark, Kull. [:'(] To each their own. I doubt that they're game changers and suspect that the benefits of having air search in an escort APD may not translate 1:1 with the same benefits as having air search radar in a CV per se. But I don't know enough to say 'what's under the hood'.

Lokasenna -> RE: Fastest Method to get Air Radar on IJN Ships (6/6/2018 9:26:38 PM)
I must have been thinking of the Minekaze conversions, then, as they occur relatively early. The Mutsuki and Kamikaze conversions aren't bad, but given the dearth of capable real DD escorts... The Wakatake conversions are also good, but come later.

specie1 -> RE: Fastest Method to get Air Radar on IJN Ships (6/7/2018 1:20:57 AM)
Thank you for all the responses. I figured as long as a DD doesn't have the long lance torpedo or upgrade to it, and the conversion doesn't drop the speed too much I will choose to do it. I didn't realize the Zuikaku and Shokaku got radar sooner than the other CVs. I like the fact that the Minekaze conversion gets you the upgrade in 8/42. I am lucky to have lost only one DD so far so it made it easier to convert all Minekazes and Kamikazes to APD. I really like the ability to have amphibous TFs with 6 APDs load an entire SNLF to attack defended bases and a 4 APD TF can carry an entire JNAF to attack undefended bases. No need for escorts either.

rustysi -> RE: Fastest Method to get Air Radar on IJN Ships (6/7/2018 9:07:07 PM)
quote: Looking at them all: 1) The Momo (no APD option, just DD or E) never gets radar, nor even ASW until 6/43 2) The Momi class DD gets radar and good DC in 4/43, but the Momi class APD is horrible in every way. Major speed reduction, NEVER gets improved DC, no radar until 12/43. 3) Wakatake class DD/APD get improved DC and Radar in 2/43 4) Mutsuki and Kamikaze class APDs get Radar AND improved DC in 12/42. Speed drop from DD is only 35 to 29. The second best option too.... 5) Minekaze class APDs get Radar AND improved DC in 8/42 with a 35-to-29 speed drop. The clear champ. However, I suspect that early radar availability might be a "bug" since the Type 13 Radar device arrival date is 4/43, so it probably shouldn't be available until then. Edit - For DD-class escorts, the best for early radar are: 1) Akitsuki: Best by far as they gain Radar in 1/43 (already have top-of-the-line DC) and they have best-in-class range (8.3K). Plus, in 9/43 these gems acquire a second set of radar. 2) Mutsuki: Radar and better DC in 1/43. Only downside is the range (4K), but that's still better than all the APDs. 3) Shiratsuyu: Radar and better DC in 7/43. Decent range, too (6K). All the other DDs are 9/43 or later. +1 quote: The Mutsuki and Kamikaze conversions aren't bad, but given the dearth of capable real DD escorts... I used to convert lots of 'em, but for this very reason I convert none any longer.

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