Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (Full Version)

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larryfulkerson -> Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/19/2018 12:10:59 PM)

2clicks ( Andrew ) and I thought we'd try a game of Overlord '44 with me as the Allies because Andrew hasn't played all that many games yet and might feel overwhelmed with the Allied side whereas the German side is relatively easier. I'm coaching Andrew, is my understanding, so this AAR is open to him from the start. I'd really love it if you readers would post your advice about his situation and what he should try to do next etc., So as to help him so we can all learn together. I picked this scenario because I thought it was a short, simple scenario and it appears that I got caught by the old bate and switch again. There's something like 200 turns. Well, we don't have to play the entire thing if Andrew doesn't want to.

Here's one panel of the situation briefing and you can see that the Americans have a slight shock advantage at the beginning of the game. I assume it will decrease as time passes and that there won't be nearly so big a shock difference. It's been so long since I've played this thing I don't remember any more....all the details. I remember Caen being one of the keys to the progress of the Americans. So my advice for Andrew is to hang onto Caen as long as you can because it's got swell defensive properties and the Allied Lines can't progress very far with the city in it's rear. It's a great place to anchor one flank of your defensive lines.

I notice that the scenario begins on 05June44, one day before the real thing and I'm guessing that the scenario is trying to simulate the night-time landings by the paratroopers the day before the sea landings happened. That and maybe one turn's worth of aerial bombardment. As I recall the Allied INT missions were murder on the movement of German units.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/0CA29B6A808748A9A961541FB2F43532.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/19/2018 12:29:12 PM)

I've got less than 200 units so the turns will probably go fast unless I slow down and post stuff in the AAR and go into detail and explain stuff etc. There's 51 aircraft units at my disposal and I daresay that I don't think the Germans have that many. I've got a vague memory of them not having any planes at all. And yet I've got fighter groups. I'm probably going to end up using them as recon/free range INT.
I'm going to follow the red green yellow rule for my units health policy and try to keep them stocked up with supplies to at least 50% at all times. This is an older scenario and may not work just right with TOAW IV and we may need to tweak the scenario and restart but I hope not.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/FC636AABC07F41A7A6E6C61D6CE9812E.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/19/2018 12:39:09 PM)

Here's what it looks like at game start and I was startled to see that it's half-day turns. So this will have a tactical feel to it. I hope Andrew likes what he's been given so far.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/713C87A3200C4D4C9EDBC442FECC4E84.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/19/2018 12:54:25 PM)

I've been moving units according to the OOB order and I've come to the aircraft and I found them all set to INT even the fighters so I'm leaving them that way for now. I need to drop the paratroopers yet and I need to re-position the boats for better support and then we should be done for this turn.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/868873A9E87846FD86E702CB746DC04F.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/19/2018 1:32:04 PM)

I think for the June 5 turn I'll just pound the German CD guns a couple of times and I'm going to leave the planes on INT and save their supply for all the INT they are going to do this afternoon so I've moved everybody and I'm ready to pull the trigger and then ship the moves to Andrew.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/887CA07B967B4D109F49A8CB75512CD7.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/19/2018 1:42:22 PM)

I shot the ships at the German CD guns for two combat rounds and then called it quits. We will have to interogate Andrew to see what the losses were.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/2173E8C0BB2B4D1686AE9184E1366408.jpg[/image]



2clicks -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/19/2018 2:32:31 PM)

No pictures from me I'm afraid.

So for a small start this seems quite big! Inital plan for the germans is to focus on the objectives which area at the south of the map. This should keep me away from the big naval guns and close to my supply. Moving is terrible as everything that moves get blasted by allied aircraft. However since I'm new to this its nice having no planes to think about....

Ive thrown a few sheels about but not really doing much until there is more shape to the attack. Im going to try blow bridges and genreally slow down and harrass the allies as much as possible. I'm unable to move most of my units at the start and I'm also aware that they will lose the 150% supply if i do so most will keep tucked up for now. Looking at the senario overall the germans don't have much chance to "win" but slowing the advance and stalling if possible would be best. Hopefully I can provide a bit of resistance.

The allies opening bombardments did very little luckly to my troops. The air attacks are much worse. ANy advice for not getting everyone mowed down on the roads would be great.

In my mix of styles of being over cautious and then blind panic knee jerk reactions I've tried to attack the airborne at pegaus bridge area in the hope of blowing it up and causing problems there so I can hold Caen.


2clicks



hingram -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/19/2018 2:46:14 PM)

I tried this one and Elmer kicked my American behind. Badly. The Germans were marching through Washington DC by turn 14. The Brits are doing pretty well.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/19/2018 3:20:03 PM)

I'm setting up the attacks and some of the stacks are getting ashore without a problem at all. Most of them are going to have to fight their way ashore.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/2E6EDC6E38D3430A90ED8838967F0A2E.jpg[/image]



devoncop -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/19/2018 3:37:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 2clicks

No pictures from me I'm afraid.

So for a small start this seems quite big! Inital plan for the germans is to focus on the objectives which area at the south of the map. This should keep me away from the big naval guns and close to my supply. Moving is terrible as everything that moves get blasted by allied aircraft. However since I'm new to this its nice having no planes to think about....

Ive thrown a few sheels about but not really doing much until there is more shape to the attack. Im going to try blow bridges and genreally slow down and harrass the allies as much as possible. I'm unable to move most of my units at the start and I'm also aware that they will lose the 150% supply if i do so most will keep tucked up for now. Looking at the senario overall the germans don't have much chance to "win" but slowing the advance and stalling if possible would be best. Hopefully I can provide a bit of resistance.

The allies opening bombardments did very little luckly to my troops. The air attacks are much worse. ANy advice for not getting everyone mowed down on the roads would be great.

In my mix of styles of being over cautious and then blind panic knee jerk reactions I've tried to attack the airborne at pegaus bridge area in the hope of blowing it up and causing problems there so I can hold Caen.


2clicks




Hi both

Andrew , both AAR's I have seen on this one had a lot of action around Pegasus Bridge...if you can manage to defeat the Airborne units at Pegasus Bridge then blow it I think it will really help down the road.... its a big if though :-)

As far as the interdiction goes all I can suggest is moving any flak you have with the few units you move but to be honest this scenario is taking place in "Interdiction Central" so its just a case of gritting your teeth...[;)]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/19/2018 4:10:46 PM)

About the interdiction I would suggest you sort the OOB list on icon type and then scroll down to the AA guns and move those guys first so that the enemy's INT missions will be expended on your AA guns instead of a more valuable unit. After a couple of units get moved back and forth several times the INT missions may taper off and cease after a while. Maybe. You'd get more moves back and forth with your AA unit if it's embarked on the rails but I'm not sure it still fires as an AA gun if it's embarked. I'll have to do some tests to find out for sure.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/19/2018 4:19:06 PM)

MikeJ19 did a whole AAR on being the germans in this scenario I believe:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4462914



MikeJ19 -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/20/2018 1:56:54 AM)

Hi Guys,

I did not play this scenario, but I agree Pegasus bridge is very important. If you can hold it and keep the Allies to the far side of the river you remove a threat to Caen. I had a lot of fun with the other scenario and played it twice - once for each side.

2clicks, the bocage terrain is your friend. It will help slow down the Allies and you do not need to deploy your better units into it. In the other scenario, it is the battle for Caen that is key. As the German, most of my powerful units were committed to defending the approaches to Caen. Having not played this scenario, I'm not sure of the victory conditions, but if you can hold the British and Canadians back, you should do fine.

As your AAR progresses, I will add my 2 cents.

This is going to be interesting.

Have fun,



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/20/2018 2:24:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
Hi Guys,

I did not play this scenario, but I agree Pegasus bridge is very important. If you can hold it and keep the Allies to the far side of the river you remove a threat to Caen. I had a lot of fun with the other scenario and played it twice - once for each side.

2clicks, the bocage terrain is your friend. It will help slow down the Allies and you do not need to deploy your better units into it. In the other scenario, it is the battle for Caen that is key. As the German, most of my powerful units were committed to defending the approaches to Caen. Having not played this scenario, I'm not sure of the victory conditions, but if you can hold the British and Canadians back, you should do fine.

As your AAR progresses, I will add my 2 cents.

This is going to be interesting.

Have fun,

First of all let me be the first to thank you for your advice and insight. I'll look into the Victory Conditions to make sure but I think it's based on objective points held. Terrain occupied I think. I have a vague memory of the Allies having 0 points and the Germans having the max for a side which I think was 220 points at the beginning of the game. The Germans don't have to do much to win besides hamper the Allies at everything they try to do. Slow down his progress and prevent the most VP's from going to the Allied side. Too bad you don't have any planes yet. I'm wondering if there are to be any Axis planes at all. There's the airfields for them. Complete with AA guns and everything.

With all the INT missions making things difficult for the Germans I think I would be tempted, before I moved anything else, to move my AA units back and forth until all the INT strikes taper off. They would be among the best targets for those strikes in my opinion.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/20/2018 12:19:49 PM)

On the west side beaches the Americans got almost everybody ashore and they are almost ready to push north. I'm wondering how beneficial it would be to drive west and cut off the peninsula first and THEN drive north so as to trap the Germans in the north half. I need to connect the west beaches with the rest of the landings to the east before too long. There's a second wave that's going to land and I need to clear out the beaches to make room for them.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/B973D9DEBB8E4602896B1AC4B5E0E30A.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/20/2018 12:28:49 PM)

Here's the rest of the beaches and there were problems in some places and an easy breeze in other places. British units are ashore and ready to push south and the Americans are having problems getting everybody ashore. The second waves are probably going to have to be delayed because of a lack of room for the additional units on the beaches. Some of the ships are red already and the battle has only just started.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/AC659601A9B74FE2A0F23A5E0537009E.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/20/2018 12:38:11 PM)

Here's the condition of the planes. There's a lot of them that need rest this turn because of all the INT that was flown during Andrew's turn. I'll have to be careful about assigning direct missions because there may not be enough CS to cover all the attacks. So I may have to prioritize the battles. Most important battles to get the CS and the rest of them either postponed or proceed without support.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/55FB4C0831A34C77B5589DA284C3BE3E.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/20/2018 2:30:49 PM)

I've discovered that the German CD guns like to shoot at my floaters unless and until I move them one hex at a time.
[image]local://upfiles/16287/63F33F35F5F146D58269BC607BE7F233.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/20/2018 5:04:51 PM)

The British beaches are seeing the most progress as they are pushing further south, clearing the beaches of mines and barbed wire and booby traps as they go. They have set up a command post, a hole in the ground actually, and they are stringing the wires for the telephones and they have radio contact with the ships offshore and there's three runners left for the commander and things are clicking along. Things seem to be going well. But on the American side there's lots of resistance and they are still crammed into the small beachheads they made on T1.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/326C7918A35C49C5B9AEB0134CA73567.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/20/2018 5:06:59 PM)

Here's how many combats there were this turn. They are counting the many many times that the CD guns shot at my ships.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/9C83A141BAB44CB39394D720087A863A.jpg[/image]



MikeJ19 -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/21/2018 1:41:37 AM)

Larry,

This is really cool. The map is so familiar, yet different from the one in my games. In my games, Cherbourg was a supply source for the Germans. You may want to check that out...

Have fun,



2clicks -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/21/2018 8:01:14 AM)

So another turn and I am amazed at how fast the allies are getting troops ashore and moving them up quickly. I've tried to blow as many bridges as possible. I might be going over the top but there you go. Reinforcements are starting to arrive so I was lucky that the air was not as full of enemy planes and some movement was done without to much trouble.


I've made a few attacks against the British paras however the loses are high so I'm not sure if that's the best move. Hopefully the reinforcements can help the infantry on the coast. I may be wrong in my thinking but the best thing might be just to defend and slow down the allies if possible until more units arrive and hopefully take up better positions. I would say counter attack on any weakness but I'm not sure what that might be as these small para groups seem to cause me so much trouble let alone huge numbers of tanks.

Artillery is on tac support but would people recommend some aggressive bombardment? Especially if a unit looks surrounded and all hope lost maybe just lob as many shells out as possible? It would fit my WW1 mindset[:D]






larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/21/2018 8:41:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
Larry,

This is really cool. The map is so familiar, yet different from the one in my games. In my games, Cherbourg was a supply source for the Germans. You may want to check that out...

Have fun,

So what happened...you played a different version of this scenario? A different scenario entirely? Steve Sill has a good one called "D-Day to the Ruhr" and it's got landings and a fight all the way to Germany. I have a vague memory of playtesting it. Or at least having played it before. A couple of years ago. But this game is good...I've got no complaints. I hope Andrew is having fun.

My paratroops have no firepower but they are holding their place on the front lines just like everyone else. The Germans are starting to descend from Cherbourg and form a front line just north of my units. I'm gusssing he's not going to try to push me back into the sea. I've got an armored division coming in T8 that I'd like to deploy in the west for the push north. I'm thinking that Cherbourg is a supply point for the Germans like Mike said and I want it for my troops. The supply levels would be better if I had it.

About half of the aircraft are red or yellow or orange and can't fly this turn. I've been really hard on them the past turn or two. I'm going to have to pace myself with the planes. They represent my firepower on the battlefield. I want the planes to do most of the work. The ships are gone now so that just leaves the planes for support. Besides the front is moving so far inland the ships can't reach any longer. No targets for them. I'm parking them out of the way for now.

I haven't developed a plan per se, I'm mostly just pushing everybody south on the east side concentrating on the Caen area and on the west side we're waiting for the troops to refit and for the supply levels to rise a bit. I feel like I'm falling behind schedule.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/21/2018 8:56:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2clicks
So another turn and I am amazed at how fast the allies are getting troops ashore and moving them up quickly. I've tried to blow as many bridges as possible. I might be going over the top but there you go. Reinforcements are starting to arrive so I was lucky that the air was not as full of enemy planes and some movement was done without to much trouble.

I've made a few attacks against the British paras however the loses are high so I'm not sure if that's the best move. Hopefully the reinforcements can help the infantry on the coast. I may be wrong in my thinking but the best thing might be just to defend and slow down the allies if possible until more units arrive and hopefully take up better positions. I would say counter attack on any weakness but I'm not sure what that might be as these small para groups seem to cause me so much trouble let alone huge numbers of tanks.

Artillery is on tac support but would people recommend some aggressive bombardment? Especially if a unit looks surrounded and all hope lost maybe just lob as many shells out as possible? It would fit my WW1 mindset[:D]

I like the way you think Andrew dude. I've got a theory that firing the artillery until it's cherry red just wastes supply. The offensive firepower of an arty unit that's so low on supply that it's red is miniscule I'm thinking. It's firing but getting no hits and you wonder why. I like to treat my arty more realistically and let it rest when it turns yellow. I fire it only when it's green and when it turns red and the position is giving way I move the arty out of the way. Arty is valuable for holding a position or storming a target position but it's almost worthless if it's got no supply. That's the theory. I wish one of the developers would clarify this for us.

I see you moving your German troops south from Cherbourg and forming a line just north of my troops and that's a good thing. No need to rush into anything. You're taking the time to stage your units before moving them adjacent....I do that too. If you're defending you might want to put the lessor units on the front line and back them up with the stout units on tac support in the next line back. Less losses when the enemy attacks and the stout unit can sometimes prevent a breakthrough. There's another school of thought that says use the "crusty defense" where most of the firepower goes on the front lines in huge stacks that are hard to push around. The Soviets do that a lot in east front games. I like the weak units backed up by stout units better.

Do you have any planes at all yet? I've been abusing mine. When a plane is on INT missions it needs a lot of supply to fly several times during the enemy turn. Planes on INT missions can go through a boat-load of supply in one turn. When an aircraft unit turns from dark green to light green I switch it from INT to CS because CS is less of a supply hog. When they turn yuellow they rest. I've got a similar procedure for the troops so that they stay at least 50% supplied all the time. I like them to be combat ready at all times if possible.

Great game. Thanks for playing me.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/21/2018 9:44:12 AM)

Here's what the peninsula looks like now. The units are pushing and shoving but there's very little movement going on in the south corner of this area. I tried an attack and lost more than the Germans did so that's not working. I may have to go around and attack them from the south somehow. That's a long way around though.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/6264D6D243D0402482E0A05EBA5AC4D2.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/21/2018 9:48:16 AM)

Here's a section from the middle and there's a bug-a-bear in that there's a German hold-out and he's blocking the flow of supply to the next section of beach to the west. Those guys are out of supply. I've got to get rid of that German posistion ASAP. Very little progress in this area, very rough terrain to have to work in.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/CF9057625E3E43D1B8F3D8ABD7B09415.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/21/2018 8:41:34 PM)

Here's what it looks like on T5 before I have moved anybody. I'm hoping to make some progress this turn since it's a daylight turn and the airpower has recovered somewhat. There was no INT last turn during Andrew's turn because the planes were too tired to fly. Some of them have recovered and are ready to go this turn.

I've parked the ships near the UK because they can't reach targets any longer.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/32E13EC8F312499288026B08A73D15CE.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/21/2018 8:48:17 PM)

The British paratroopers have finally captured the bridge and now maybe the supply will flow to the paratroopers area. They were out of supply since they landed.

A lot of German units are starting to gather near Caen and I'm starting to get worried that they will counterattack and try to drive me back into the sea. I don't think the landings are in jepardy just that the Germans are going to make a lot of trouble and hassle for the British when the British finally arrive at Caen. Which should be soon now.

The supply situation is great except where the British paratroops are.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/F2B100F4E1D2407B8D22677823000AE3.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/21/2018 8:57:40 PM)

Here's the condition of the aircraft units.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/C1416990E284456081F3FF1E8E4821C2.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Snatching Victory from the Jaws of De Feet (6/21/2018 9:22:09 PM)

Here's how the two airborne divisions are doing. They don't have the firepower to go on the offensive so much but they can hold a place on the front lines. So far they've been holding back the Germans approaching from the west. The Germans COULD attack and cause all kinds of trouble but so far they have been standing off and just watching. I'm not complaining. I need an armored division to break the logjam.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/745E3BC3752A41D39847043A39F30D81.jpg[/image]



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