RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (Full Version)

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larryfulkerson -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/4/2018 12:43:13 PM)

Here's the front lines as of T76 which is March 11, 1942. I'm chasing down partisans in the back field. There's three of them in this image near Pskov.

Ian has made a massive bulge at Kiev and I've scrapped together an ad hoc group to contain them. Now I'm wondering what to do next. I haven't the strength to straighten out the front lines again so I'm wondering if I should pull the lines back to the next river to the west. I would lose a lot of people doing that. I don't have many throw-away units left to spend.

The units that respawn appear at Berlin and several have been reborn. I recconize some of them from the southern front. They are red in supply and have some missing equipment so they will need some rest and refit before I can use them again. There'sw quite a crowd around Berlin right now. I'm not sure but I think Ian's Il-4's can reach Berlin. That's all I need right now: Ian dropping bridges around Berlin.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/022959DC7CE44E64BD34A88C9BF7F6C0.jpg[/image]



devoncop -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/4/2018 5:42:36 PM)

Soviet Turn 76....11th March 1942

German armour and infantry supported by bombers launch a significant attack on the western end of the Kiev salient. Elements of 1st, 5th and 10th Panzer Division and the 197th Infantry Division comprising in total over 700 Heavy Rifle Squads, 175 tanks and 150 aircraft hit positions held by units of 26th Tank Corps, 54th Army and a brigade from 2nd Guards Tank Corps and forced them to retreat but we're unable to occupy the ground which the Soviets have now retaken. Losses were 80 Soviet HRS and nearly 100 of their interior tanks to 70 German HRS and 16 tanks and 45 aircraft.

Reinforcements are railed into the salient in case the offensive continues.

During the Soviet Turn two of the pockets of Finnish troops were reduced and a German Infantry Regiment also eliminated. Infiltrating Cavalry have managed to reach the gates of Petsamo held by two German HQ's and this threatens the entire German force facing Soviet lines just West of Murmansk with also being cut off.

There were several bridges blown on the Bug River in the South but overall artillery and bomber activity was minimal as they were largely repositioned and rested.

I have decided that following the upcoming ceasefire Soviet strategy needs to change. Up until now there has been a need to form and reinforce defensive lines and only limited probing attacks along the line other than in Finland where a combination of overwhelming force thanks to troops being diverted there in significant numbers and open geography has allowed much more success.

Probing all the way along the line has been All well and good but it has meant Soviet artillery has not been concentrated enough to cause really significant damage to German lines.

I will need to redeploy the artillery resources ready for a grand offensive with the aim of smashing open the German Front once a shock advantage returns...now to decide on the sector.....




SMK-at-work -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/4/2018 9:32:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

...... I'm not sure but I think Ian's Il-4's can reach Berlin. That's all I need right now: Ian dropping bridges around Berlin.



One of the old house rules from FITE was no bombing bridges after German initial shock wears off - u not playing that??



devoncop -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/4/2018 9:44:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work


quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

...... I'm not sure but I think Ian's Il-4's can reach Berlin. That's all I need right now: Ian dropping bridges around Berlin.



One of the old house rules from FITE was no bombing bridges after German initial shock wears off - u not playing that??


Hi

Was that for both sides ? What was the logic in that ? I am not a huge fan of house rules but tend to go with the scenario designers suggestions which we are doing in this game. BTW there is no chance I will be sending IL-4's unescorted to drop bridges anywhere near Berlin. They would get massacred😱

That comment was in what I call the "classic Larry disinformation category " to get me to do something dumb[:D]

He is like a cunning card sharp...you have to watch him [:D]

All the best

Ian



SMK-at-work -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/4/2018 9:56:22 PM)

Yes it was for both sides - the idea begin that it was simply something that neither side did much of after the first few days of the war. Also it screws up the game too much!

Probably the only well known case where it was tried is the soviets against some Romanian bridges with TB-3/I-16 Zveno composites




devoncop -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/5/2018 8:25:11 AM)

Thanks SMK.

Having read about the extent of partisan operations in the Soviet Union (particularly after early 1942 when they were properly organised by STAVKA) I think stopping bridge blowing by Soviet bombers would not really be justified given how few partisans are spawned. I have dropped maybe 4 bridges with partisans since the start as they are jumped on by the Germans on arrival.

As an example Operation "Rails War" in 1943 utilised over 100,000 partisans and destroyed around 230,000 rails, many bridges and trains and severely disrupted German supplies for the Battle of Kursk. The game cannot model this (nor should it in my view as having 20 or so small partisan units spawning would make the German task tedious and frustrating) so the bridge blowing dynamic by bombers helps abstract the correct effect.

It should be remembered as well that the numbers of bridges and crossings are huge so disruption is never more that minimal and temporary even if two or three bridges are dropped close by.

It's an interesting one though and I may well be in the minority with this view so thanks for raising it.👍




devoncop -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/5/2018 1:57:47 PM)

Soviet Turn 77...15th March 1942

More bombardments from the Germans and a minor probing attack over the middle Dnepr but intelligence did report a stripping of the lines on the Finnish/Soviet border north of Leningrad as the progress of the Soviet advance in north Eastern Finland appears to have got the Finns worried about being caught in another pocket. The Soviet 7th Army supported by 21st Tank Division and Fixed Heavy Artillery from Leningrad itself succeeds in breaking therough the immediate rearguard of the dug in Finnish 12th infantry Division but it took the whole turn so it remains to be seen if the Finns decide to counter attack or continue their retreat north.

Further to the east the Finnish 15th Infantry Division which had been surrounded on the more eastern Finnish/Soviet Border was repeatedly attacked and is now concentrated in a single 10Km area just east of Lodeinoye Pole.

Soviet artillery is now in the process of redeploying (as per the post ceasefire planned offensive) in the main so the Soviet turn was short though another entire unit of JU87's was wiped out on its airfield west of Kiev.



larryfulkerson -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/5/2018 10:03:25 PM)

Ian is breaking through the Finn front line above Leningrad. Now all the Finn troops are going to have to displace toward Helsinki to plug up the bottlnecks on the roads and rails. Given the sizes of the opposing sides I'd say it's just a matter of time until the Soviets own Helsinki.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/6C836E52EC4F435F923CA9FB6B33C1D1.jpg[/image]



devoncop -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/6/2018 1:13:58 PM)

I got a diplo message from Larry querying whether I was happy with not doing more attacking given I need to get to Berlin to win so I thought I would include my email reply to him in case anyone else thinks the same. Bear in mind I have never played this scenario before and Larry has so he is much more likely to understand the timings than I am but with that proviso here is my reply with my thinking going forwards.......hope it makes at least a bit of sense [:)]

Hi Larry

Thanks for the detailed diplomatic message ....always good to hear your thoughts !

As for your question.....I am gauging my progress versus history so given in August 43 (over a year ahead of where we are) the Germans were fighting around Kharkov and Kursk and were only just being booted out of the Caucasus I am ok with being relatively cautious for now on the main front.

I have hopes a more effective offensive can be launched in 1943 when the shock values move in the Soviets favour as the Soviets still have shock disadvantages v the Germans in 42 so attacks will be more expensive now.

Having said that I am planning something after the next ceasefire in 3 or 4 turns as launching anything now would be pointless as I wouldn't have time to exploit it and also maybe during the next Soviet Winter when hopefully the effects will be even better.

There may also be opportunities to make more of the Finnish situation this year and the decision to build up a Soviet Fleet which is due on stream early 43 will help this.

Hope all this makes sense but I do know there is a LONG way to get to Berlin :-)

All the best

Ian



devoncop -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/6/2018 1:24:40 PM)

Soviet Turn 78........18th March 1942

I open the turn to find with some consternation that there has been a German breakthrough on the eastern perimeter of the Odessa defences thanks to a huge concentration of Italian and German artillery and good quality German troops.
I also find that the Finns have indeed retreated from the defence lines north of Leningrad in a complete withdrawal so Soviet troops move north taking Terijoki and close in on Ayrapaa.

In Finland sustained attacks against two pockets see the near total destruction of both the 14th and 15th Finnish Divisions and that should be completed next turn.

Not withstanding the email above I do launch attacks just east of Chernovo on the Luga River south of Narva and manage to force a break in the German line which can possibly be exploited though this section of line does have a significant SS presence so reserves may well arrive.

Another assault was made on German lines north of Smolensk but although losses were heavy on both sides the line again held.

In an attempt to protect the Odessa garrison substantial air assaults were made against the concentrations of Romanian, Italian and German artillery outside the perimeter and very heavy losses were inflicted in guns on the Italians and Romanians in particular. Several Divisions were successfully shipped into the perimeter from Sevastapol to bolster the defences.



devoncop -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/7/2018 1:08:40 PM)

Soviet Turn 79....22nd March 1942

The Germans managed to gain ground from both the western and eastern side of the Odessa perimeter as the 4th Rumanian Army from the West and the 22nd German Division and Italian Expeditionary Force from the north east pushed back Soviet defenders. The situation at Odessa having appeared stable has now deteriorated for the last few turns and is of great concern. I REALLY need to hold the city given its supply source status.

Up in Finland a general offensive is launched against isolated German and Finnish formations. The losses to the Axis are considerable as the 15th and 17th Finnish Divisions and a full regiment from the German 169th Infantry Division are destroyed . Soviet Armour and infantry formations are now battling the Finnish defenders in the Coastal Forts at Koivisto and Viipuri. The latter town is on the main southern coastal road direct to Helsinki.

Almost all Soviet bombing formations were grounded this turn thanks to German air activity so several have been pulled back east to try and regain their strength.



MikeJ19 -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/7/2018 1:52:51 PM)

Larry and Ian,

This continues to be very interesting to follow. Well done!



devoncop -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/7/2018 8:45:12 PM)

Thanks Mike....glad you are enjoying it ! I am having an absolute blast.

Soviet Turn 80 25th March 1941

I am fortunate as Larry only manages a short turn due to some serious resistance from some partisans he took out West of Minsk which burned through his turn.

The offensive in Finland continues and after initial resistance the two Forts at Viipuri and Koivisto both fall to sustained assault and Soviet forces continue their advance towards Helsinki.

Thankfully there are no further advances towards Odessa and fresh artillery is successfully shipped into the encircled garrison to try and help the beleaguered defenders.

The Finnish forces facing Murmansk are now also fully surrounded due to Soviet troops advancing from The South and it is hoped Finland may be able to be knocked out of the war completely.

Elsewhere on the front as we approach the ceasefire of spring 1942 things are generally quiet although attacks are made in the North to try and divert at least some German troops from the south where they are causing the Soviets some problems.



SMK-at-work -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/8/2018 2:14:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: devoncop


It should be remembered as well that the numbers of bridges and crossings are huge so disruption is never more that minimal and temporary even if two or three bridges are dropped close by.



Yeah but you are only in 1941 still, and there's a lot of time for a lot more partisans to arrive!! :)

Also killing rail lines means destroying all the small bridges not marked - over ditches and streams and even storm water gullies.......



devoncop -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/8/2018 6:13:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work


quote:

ORIGINAL: devoncop


It should be remembered as well that the numbers of bridges and crossings are huge so disruption is never more that minimal and temporary even if two or three bridges are dropped close by.



Yeah but you are only in 1941 still, and there's a lot of time for a lot more partisans to arrive!! :)

Also killing rail lines means destroying all the small bridges not marked - over ditches and streams and even storm water gullies.......




Point taken.........we are well into 1942 now though.

I have just about stopped dropping bridges with bombers now anyway...they are needed for CS more.



devoncop -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/8/2018 6:18:28 AM)

Soviet Turn 81.........29th March 1942

With the ceasefire imminent I continue to advance in Finland and have now hit the new Finnish defence line just west of Viipuri protecting the Helsinki road. I have requested artillery be brought to the front as this is going to be needed.

Heavy attacks are launched across the Narva River and the German defenders are pushed back but the Soviets are too tired to follow up whilst back in Finland the 5th SS Geb Division is reduced to 50% strength in a pocket and 1st Finnish Division loses a complete regiment.

The situation at Odessa remains stable for now with the Soviet artillery helping to offset at least some of the German heavy guns.




devoncop -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/8/2018 4:51:06 PM)

Turns 82-88...

We are now into the spring ceasefire as mud prevents offensive operations.....

I shall report back on the next active German turn....



devoncop -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/9/2018 5:58:41 AM)

Turn 84....8th April 1942

In a blatant contravention of Adolf's orders (did no-one tell him?) the Soviets peer through the lashing rain and muddy quagmire on the orning of 8th April 1942 to see......nothing. The Germans have retreated out of sight. Due to the shocking weather no advance can be ordered as yet (ceasefire in place until about turn 89) but the few recon flights that could be launched as well as reports from sympathetic locals further west show that the line is in retreat from north to south.

The Dnepr has been abandoned as a defence line by the Germans and as a consequence, Staraya Russa in the north, through Vitebsk, Orsha, Mogilev the Kiev salient south as far as Kherson in the Crimea all lie empty and liberation will soon be at hand.......

The new German defences appear to be coalescing north and south of the eastern side of the Pripyat Marshes and along the Berezina River with the northern end anchored on Pskov and Lake Peipus.

In the south the Line appears to still be east of Odessa so the city remains under siege but the inhabitants will soon be able to hear the crash of Soviet artillery to the east as the front lines meet so morale in the city should soar !






larryfulkerson -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/9/2018 8:46:22 AM)

I decided to pull back and form another MLR further to the west and get organized, get the formations put back together, and build a better defensive line. So my units are moving to the west and giving the Soviets free access to move forward when the cease fire ends. I need to straighten out the front lines and make them shorter if possible. Less units on the front lines gives more units to chase partisans. Unless I'm mistaken it's the same partisan units that are appearing on the map so if I DON'T kill it but just surround it and babysit it then maybe they will quit appearing in new spots each turn.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/02964371DB7C44E6AC557B220EE7231D.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/9/2018 5:25:05 PM)

Here's me pulling back to the next river to the west. I wanted to get organized better and this cease fire season is ideal for that. I'm moving the units back to better supply levels and I want to use the Infantry on the front lines with the Panzers as the reserve units. I'm thinking of flying all the planes to Germany to keep them out of the fight for a little while to let them refit.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/F1EB1D8BE30445DE84F6C61C97A6E46A.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/9/2018 10:57:59 PM)

I'm getting organized and starting to form the next MLR along the river and I'm enclosing the Odessa area within my territory so I'll have to babysit that still. I'm parking HQ's and engineers on the river crossings so that there will be a modicum of defense on those bridge busting missions Ian might fly. I realize that eventually I'll have to give up this area and pull back some more so I'm not all that eager to take Odessa. I don't want to spend the troops it would cost. I'm happy bombarding them however. Ian keeps sailing units to Odessa through the port and there's quite a fortress there now. I estimate that I'm about 30% through building the MLR. It's got to go from this coast to the north coast without a break.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/9B5435122DEE46C8B641A9B4F562AAC3.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/9/2018 11:07:13 PM)

Here's the Pskov area and you can see that I'm still quite disorganized yet. I've started parking defenders along the river and I'm planning on trying to use just Infantry as defenders and use the Panzers as the reserve, parked just behind the lines up and down the front lines. I don't know where the next breakthrough will occur so I'm defending all of it. I'm not at all sure I have enough Infantry to man the entire front and I'm wondering which of the Panzer formations to employ to fill in. I've got several.

You can seee me surrounding a partisan unit. I plan to replace the Infantry units around him with RR engineers and security forces and just watch him for the rest of the game. He'll quit spawning each turn if I do that. Note the Soviet hex near the middle. I'd best go investigate that. It appeared this turn.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/F49099715DAD4A549B3E16B6A430CED0.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/11/2018 8:46:45 AM)

The mud season has ended and this is the front lines and the war is on again.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/A276C5D064D54F1498934B44480382D0.jpg[/image]



devoncop -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/11/2018 3:51:20 PM)

Turn 90 29th April 1942

Finally the skies clear and operations resume as huge numbers of Soviet heavy artillery opens up on German lines just West of the Narva river near Kohtla-Jarve and tank and infantry units from the 63rd and 54th Armies crash into the 21st and 11th Infantry Divisions of AGN. The line initially holds as reserves support the infantry but a second assault breaks through on a 20Km front. It appears only the artillery heavy HQ units now stand in the way of the Soviets in Kohtla -Jarve itself.

If the break can be maintained the drive towards Talinin 200Km away can start and the liberation of the Baltic States. In an attempt to prevent reserve armoured Divisions reaching the Germans quickly a bridge is blown behind German lines.

In Finland remnants of 11th of 14th Finnish Division's are reduced further just West of Kontupohja and the Finnish 1st Division is destroyed.

The original German rescue column for the Finns comprising 6th and 7th Geb SS Divisions and 169th Infantry Division were attacked repeatedly after being surrounded and almost totally eliminated and should be finished off next turn.

The Finnish front line to the West blocking the road towards Helsinki is bombarded and more Soviet Armour and Infantry moved up to try and break through. To assist this a very speculative naval operation is launched across the Baltic.

Further South Soviet troops move across the Dnepr and capture multiple towns as they advance towards the new German lines which they have yet to reach and Soviet bombers hit several German airbases to the rear.




devoncop -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/12/2018 7:13:56 AM)

Soviet Turn 91...3rd May 1942.

With the Soviet lines moving slowly up to meet the new German defence lines in the South and centre most of the action again is in Northern Russia and Finland.

Pskov is evacuated by the Germans and is liberated by Shock Army infantry with the German lines visible across the River Velikaya running South from the city.

Fighting on the German lines to the West of the Narva River continues to be fierce and the German 11th Division is hit hard and forced to retreat from its position on the coast.

In Finland the 6th SS and 7th Geb Divn both just survive this turn but are now surrounded in a single 10Km area whilst the HQ of the Finnish 2nd Corps is destroyed further east.

There is a check to the Soviet advance from Viipurii on the route to Helsinki however where the main Finnish defences fight off two determined Soviet assaults with the help of dug in artillery. In an attempt to break the impasse Soviet infantry and armour launch an amphibious landing behind the Finnish lines....

In the air the Luftwaffe and allied air units suffer over 300 planes lost for the loss of 60 Soviet planes as Soviet air superiority takes its toll.






larryfulkerson -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/12/2018 11:36:16 AM)

Ian has broken through my defenses near Narva and I'm going to have to comitt some of my reserves to contain it. The troops in the far north are doomed and there's nothing I can do to prevent Ian from grabbing Helsinki. It's just a matter of time.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/66E7313392424FD2860C6D04D2093C6D.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/12/2018 12:00:13 PM)

Ian did an amphibious landing to the west of my Finn defenders above Leningrad and have gotten into the backfield and I think I may have contained it for now.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/7EF8A54B80A74E2889646A74AE400BF4.jpg[/image]



devoncop -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/12/2018 4:33:27 PM)

Soviet Turn 92...6th May 1942

German actions were confined to some bombardments and the surrounding of my first wave of amphibious invaders in Finland along with rushing reinforcements to West of the Narva River. In order to find troops to surround the Soviet armour and infantry that had landed in Finland however it seems the Finns had to strip their garrison in the port of Sakkijarvi close by which the second wave land in unopposed and attack to the East and North meeting up with Soviet tanks from the main line East of Viipuri.

The only town which now lies between the Soviets in Finland and Helsinki is Kotka on the coast, 70km to the West.


Down in the extreme south shelling begins of the German and Rumanian positions on the western side of the Bug River and local commanders decide to launch an attack from Nicolaev towards the besieged city of Odessa now only 60Km away. Multiple attacks go in on the right hand flank of the Axis positions on the coast held by large Romanian formations supported by artillery. After brutal fighting the Romanians are pushed back and by the end of the turn Soviet forces have gained 20km.





larryfulkerson -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/12/2018 8:34:00 PM)

Ian is moving his units adjacent to mine and the fighting has already started. He's made several attempts to break the line and is making some minor progress in the south and the Finns are in trouble.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/15D3B756654C4804AE42C41E75D02DFA.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: FITE v.5.0 Ian Soviets larry Axis (10/12/2018 8:42:57 PM)

New moves from Ian and inspecting the northern front lines i see that Ian has made some more progress pushing my defenders backward and now we're back to the artillery park. I'll have to make some adjustments and rail some more people up here.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/B7E5032DC34D4046BE2B1B6380B7113F.jpg[/image]



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