attacking atolls (Full Version)

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dougmichel -> attacking atolls (7/17/2018 6:35:21 PM)

I am having issues as IJN attacking atolls without taking massive causalities despite me having vastly higher AV. What steps do I need to take to reduce the losses?



RangerJoe -> RE: attacking atolls (7/17/2018 7:27:53 PM)

Air and sea bombard, if you have to for several days. You can always put in a smaller unit first, then add more later. Each additional wave of attackers will cause the defenders to defensive bombard so include ships to soak up the shots and fire counter battery fire. You can cause the enemy to decimate itself doing so.



jwolf -> RE: attacking atolls (7/17/2018 7:48:26 PM)

As far as I know, each day you unload ANY troops at an enemy atoll, you initiate an automatic shock attack by your guys against the enemy. So I believe the better approach is to come in hard and fast with everybody, and DO NOT continue to unload more troop fragments the next day. Unloading more supply is OK. After the initial shock attack, your guys will have time to recover from the disruption and then you can do a more normal and controlled attack. Constant naval bombardments certainly help.



MakeeLearn -> RE: attacking atolls (7/17/2018 7:55:47 PM)

As stated above, these help....

[image]local://upfiles/55056/52DA6631407148C2AA79FD8771D263D1.jpg[/image]



GetAssista -> RE: attacking atolls (7/17/2018 8:56:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dougmichel
I am having issues as IJN attacking atolls without taking massive causalities despite me having vastly higher AV. What steps do I need to take to reduce the losses?

Absolutely necessary:
1. 100% preparation
2. Unload all troops and some supplies for them in one turn
3. Put a lot of combat ships into unloading TF so that they suppress enemy arty

Optional:
1. Bomb and bombard atoll. Preferrably for some time to expend supplies
2. Tanks work great.
3. Bring 100% prepped HQ, it helps a lot with AV




JeffroK -> RE: attacking atolls (7/17/2018 9:04:12 PM)

As the IJN didnt conduct many invasions into the face of a defense force you are probably facing real life. Their (very successful) tactic was to land at an undefended site and march to the battle.

If you are still on the offensive, reconsider the need to attack and work the possibility of island hopping around the atoll using poorly defended islands.

Remember, AV is beaten by Firepower.



dougmichel -> RE: attacking atolls (7/17/2018 9:30:55 PM)

Thanks for the tips. The allies recaptured Tarawa from me and my forward SS have sighted additional TF approaching with more troops. I would like to deny them this forward station as I have been using the method of landing and marching at their southern bases on Fiji and Nouema. My forces I sent to retake were not prepared for the invasion site so i think i will stick them at Truk while they prepare and try to get a tank unit or 2 plus an HQ and then use massive transports so they all land on the 1st day. in the meantime I have 3 fleets of bombardments going to soften them up, and 1 CV force to kill off reinforcement troops and supplies.



dougmichel -> RE: attacking atolls (7/17/2018 9:39:31 PM)

Also how do you stop unloading troops but continue to unload supplies? Do you have 2 taskforces, one with troop load only and 1 with supply load only?



GetAssista -> RE: attacking atolls (7/17/2018 9:56:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dougmichel
Also how do you stop unloading troops but continue to unload supplies? Do you have 2 taskforces, one with troop load only and 1 with supply load only?

AKs loaded with supply only are failsafe method. Or if you know what you are doing you bring enough ships for units you like to employ, so that they unload in one turn and had 1+ free phase to unload supply (4 total unload phases in a turn AFAIK)



BBfanboy -> RE: attacking atolls (7/17/2018 10:02:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dougmichel

Thanks for the tips. The allies recaptured Tarawa from me and my forward SS have sighted additional TF approaching with more troops. I would like to deny them this forward station as I have been using the method of landing and marching at their southern bases on Fiji and Nouema. My forces I sent to retake were not prepared for the invasion site so i think i will stick them at Truk while they prepare and try to get a tank unit or 2 plus an HQ and then use massive transports so they all land on the 1st day. in the meantime I have 3 fleets of bombardments going to soften them up, and 1 CV force to kill off reinforcement troops and supplies.

Once the Allies start their comeback, Japan is very unlikely to amass enough shipping and LCUs with firepower to counter-invade a one-hex island/atoll. The best you can do is extract cadres of trapped troops to rebuild the unit and use raids by air and sea to damage the captured base to limit its use by the enemy.
An Allied opponent would have to be criminally negligent to let you starve out his forces on the new conquest.



spence -> RE: attacking atolls (7/17/2018 10:40:07 PM)

quote:

I am having issues as IJN attacking atolls without taking massive causalities despite me having vastly higher AV. What steps do I need to take to reduce the losses?


quote:

As the IJN didnt conduct many invasions into the face of a defense force you are probably facing real life. Their (very successful) tactic was to land at an undefended site and march to the battle.


+1

The IJN did manage an invasion at Khota Bharu against a dug in defense however even there the defenders bunkers were 1-2000 yards apart. At Wake Island their initial invasion troops never even got into their boats before the relatively few Marine defenders shot the invasion force up severely. They pulled off a reinforced second invasion but their troops landing on Wilkes Island (one of the islets in the atoll) were wiped out by a small force of defending infantry. At Tarakan in the DEI their initial direct assault was beaten off by the coast defense. They then landed their troops at a nearby undefended beach and marched around the island to take the defenders successfully from the landward side (then they executed the defenders).



MakeeLearn -> RE: attacking atolls (7/17/2018 11:29:46 PM)



Early in war, to wait until units are "100% preparation" will take time and may throw off the timetable for conquest.

ANY preparation will likely be picked up by Allied Intel and they will be warned and will have time to prepare. Allies will have greater means to prepare mid-late war.


Sometimes it is best to sail within 1 hex of invasion site and then hit the beach the next turn. Giving more night to unload and assault.

You can sail into the invasion hex with a "Do Not Unload" command and then unload the next turn. This will still allow Ships against Coastal Guns combat for that turn.



GetAssista -> RE: attacking atolls (7/18/2018 12:17:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
Early in war, to wait until units are "100% preparation" will take time and may throw off the timetable for conquest.

Correct, for Japan only and until April 1, 42 you can forget about preparation at all. I should've mentioned this option too in the list.



MakeeLearn -> RE: attacking atolls (7/18/2018 12:20:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
Early in war, to wait until units are "100% preparation" will take time and may throw off the timetable for conquest.

Correct, for Japan only and until April 1, 42 you can forget about preparation at all. I should've mentioned this option too in the list.



AH-SO, yes for Japan.



zuluhour -> RE: attacking atolls (7/18/2018 12:26:06 AM)

+1
for small atolls:
1-inf reg
1-armor bn
1-cmbt eng rot
this is my go to OOB for standard IJN defense.
I ALWAYS have what I consider the best leadership values as well



Uncivil Engineer -> RE: attacking atolls (7/18/2018 7:35:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dougmichel

Also how do you stop unloading troops but continue to unload supplies? Do you have 2 taskforces, one with troop load only and 1 with supply load only?


Yes. And it's often helpful to have some ships within the initial invasion force loaded only with supplies; that way you are assured that some supplies unload every turn, not just after all the troops have unloaded. After the Japanese invasion bonus IFA/IJN troops unload very slowly. You might want to use more transports so that none (or at least few) are heavily loaded. You don't have the luxury of hanging around for 3 days unloading.



Mike Solli -> RE: attacking atolls (7/18/2018 9:29:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dougmichel

Also how do you stop unloading troops but continue to unload supplies? Do you have 2 taskforces, one with troop load only and 1 with supply load only?

When you load the invasion troops in a TF, start another TF and load only supply. Then combine the two. The ships in the supply only TF will continue to load only supply. When you invade, the supply only ships will unload supply. Voila!



HansBolter -> RE: attacking atolls (7/18/2018 9:46:54 AM)

I make them separate and use only LSTs in the supply TF. Guarantees they unload everything on to the beach in one turn.



HansBolter -> RE: attacking atolls (7/18/2018 9:51:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

+1
for small atolls:
1-inf reg
1-armor bn
1-cmbt eng rot
this is my go to OOB for standard IJN defense.
I ALWAYS have what I consider the best leadership values as well


For a heavily defended small atoll I will use a full division and I always include an independent artillery unit in the mix you detail. When using a full division plan on sticking around with the transports to re-embark the division immediately after vthe base falls to alleviate the over stack.



Encircled -> RE: attacking atolls (7/18/2018 10:54:25 AM)

Had a Marine Rgt heavily disrupted with 100% prep on Marcus Island in my current game v Rev Rico, despite bombardments and air strikes.

Had to wait till to mostly recovered and send in reinforcements (nowhere near 100% prep) to take it.

That was against one of those Ind Mixed Bdes (which are not the best)

Sometimes the dice just roll bad sadly.



rustysi -> RE: attacking atolls (7/18/2018 5:14:26 PM)

quote:

Early in war, to wait until units are "100% preparation" will take time and may throw off the timetable for conquest.

ANY preparation will likely be picked up by Allied Intel and they will be warned and will have time to prepare.


As for the first part of this statement, any prep is better than none. So, right you don't have to wait for 100%, you don't have that luxury.

As to your prep being picked up by 'Allied Intel', who cares. Its not like he doesn't know that I'm going to attack Hong Kong, Palembang, Singers, or a plethora of other sites early in the game.

Later in the game is another story, but then again how many late war invasions is Japan going to make. OTOH there is a chance for subterfuge here. Prep for and don't invade. I do it all the time, even playing the AI just to get in the habit.



MakeeLearn -> RE: attacking atolls (7/18/2018 6:15:43 PM)

quote:


As to your prep being picked up by 'Allied Intel', who cares. Its not like he doesn't know that I'm going to attack Hong Kong, Palembang, Singers, or a plethora of other sites early in the game.



Yes, those atolls are obvious targets that can only be attacked by amphibious invasion.



BBfanboy -> RE: attacking atolls (7/19/2018 1:33:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Early in war, to wait until units are "100% preparation" will take time and may throw off the timetable for conquest.

ANY preparation will likely be picked up by Allied Intel and they will be warned and will have time to prepare.


As for the first part of this statement, any prep is better than none. So, right you don't have to wait for 100%, you don't have that luxury.

As to your prep being picked up by 'Allied Intel', who cares. Its not like he doesn't know that I'm going to attack Hong Kong, Palembang, Singers, or a plethora of other sites early in the game.

Later in the game is another story, but then again how many late war invasions is Japan going to make. OTOH there is a chance for subterfuge here. Prep for and don't invade. I do it all the time, even playing the AI just to get in the habit.


On the prep issue, I recall Michael M or Andy Mac saying that prep doesn't start providing much benefit until after 30%. I use that as my minimum, but always strive to get over 50% before sending in the troops, whether it is an amphib invasion, paradrop or just marching into battle.



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