Holding Rostov (Full Version)

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mssm45 -> Holding Rostov (7/19/2018 7:49:36 AM)

Hello,

I am a DCB veteran and I wonder if there is a real chance for the Soviet to hold Rostov.

Based on my recent experience playing against a very experienced player, I am now under the impression that it is almost mission impossible for the Soviet.

Once Kiev has fallen and the bridge repaired, it is almost only plain terrain until Rostov.

I noticed that Soviet conscript divisions, even in defence posture, don't have a chance to hold the ground against the German armies.

Even if the German decides to send the PZG1 to AGC, the infantry AGs are enough to take Rostov before Christmas.


Am I missing something in my analysis? I would like to get the designer view regarding this as I am really banging my head against the wall.

Thank you



Erzac -> RE: Holding Rostov (7/19/2018 8:18:23 AM)

It's very much dependent on how the AGC is faring. AGS pretty much need at least 2, optimally more, armies to be redirected there from the center to mount a decent enough defense.

Even though it's mostly plains after Kiev, the Dnepropetrovsk bridge needs to be taken or the Germans will face supply issues around Kharkov. Getting a regular army to defend that is big part of defending the south.

In short, German success in the AGC is directly tied to how easy/hard it will be to defend AGN/AGS, as it ties or frees up the vital regular army reinforcements.



mssm45 -> RE: Holding Rostov (7/19/2018 8:41:16 AM)

Would supply through the Kiev bridge not be sufficient (Kiev-Kursk-Kharkov railway)?

Even with 2 or 3 more armies in the South, how can you hold when facing a 6/1 loss ratio?
Also the German receives mobilization reinforcements.



Erzac -> RE: Holding Rostov (7/19/2018 9:00:45 AM)

The Kiev-Kursk-Kharkov railway only provides full supply in the immediate vicinity of the rail line when heading east of Dnepropetrovsk/Pavlograd, which makes a sustained push harder. And that's during good weather.

The point is not so much in stopping the Germans as it is in damaging and delaying them enough to make a final stand around Rostov. It is doable, but it does require quite a meticulous execution in AGS, as well as some accompanying success in AGC.



mssm45 -> RE: Holding Rostov (7/20/2018 6:35:48 AM)

I would be interested to also get comments from the other members of the community and also from the designer.

Thanks



Michael T -> RE: Holding Rostov (8/7/2018 2:59:31 AM)

I recall that the conscript armies are pretty useless. I haven't played this game in long while now. You can see some of my old AAR's if you search back far enough. The Rostov question was discussed I think.

I am just emerging from a wargaming hiatus for the past 18 months and DC3 is on my 'possibles' list of games I might get going again. If I decide on playing it again I will post a add in opponents wanted. I have to say it's pretty dead around here though. Shame this game didn't kick on in to 42/43. As it would have made a very nice alternative to WITE.



mssm45 -> RE: Holding Rostov (8/7/2018 8:32:05 AM)

I totally agree with you. I love this game and it would deserve a larger community.

I am experiencing WitE now in a massive 4v4 PBEM multiplayer game and it is a very different experience.



ChuckBerger -> RE: Holding Rostov (8/27/2018 4:14:23 AM)

I think Rostov is impossible to hold against a determined and reasonably skilled German player. The Axis get a lots of bonus divisions that weren't there historically (eg half the Romanian army should go home after the fall of Odessa, and the Hungarians/Slovaks/Italians are all far too strong in the game). This means the Germans never really feel the "stretch" that they did historically as they got deeper and deeper in to Russia/Ukraine.

The conscripts should have more of a chance to improve quickly if they survive their first taste of combat.

The Soviets can delay and bleed the attackers, blowing the bridges can help. Fortress Odessa can help.

Often I find an early aggressive counterattack against a panzer division can help a lot. Panzer divisions are actually quite brittle, especially early war when the Germans think they are invulnerable and tend to overextend their armor. Squashing a panzer division or two won't really help you hold Rostov directly, but it can have a devastating impact on your opponent's morale and make them much more cautious!



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