PDU 'off' (Full Version)

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dasboot1960 -> PDU 'off' (7/28/2018 6:28:12 PM)

Is there one of those wonderful guides floating around full of suggestions for IJ on this? I'm about a week into the game(PBEM) so nothing to bad is locked in stone. I have made some adjustments to build more Tojos and Kates , perhaps another tweak or two that seemed 'obvious'. I've read that a/c become available on their specific date, but wouldn't this allow one to cheat and speed up R&D on some other type with factories originally set to R&D the first? I have lots of little question s like that simmering, so I'm hoping there may be some fairly encompassing source? Thank you All!




RangerJoe -> RE: PDU 'off' (7/28/2018 6:37:39 PM)

From what I have read Mike Solli is good for the japanese side. Look up his suggestions and AARs for details.




rustysi -> RE: PDU 'off' (7/30/2018 7:10:57 PM)

Mike's AAR is great, but he's really not that on top of the R&D as with many other things. Neither am I for that matter, and there are many paths you can take. It all depends on your style of play.

First:

quote:

I've read that a/c become available on their specific date, but wouldn't this allow one to cheat and speed up R&D on some other type with factories originally set to R&D the first?


Its not a cheat, it how the game was designed. IMHO Japan's research was pretty much all over the place, especially considering her limited engineering capacity back then. She needs to streamline this to certain aircraft if she wishes to stay somewhat competitive with the Allies. Even then the task will be difficult and costly. Costly in HI and supply that is.

As I've said it depends on your style of play, so you won't find any 'wonderful guides' as you say. What I can tell you is there're many threads discussing the topic over the years. And as your thread title alludes to there's a huge difference whether PDU is on or off. I play with it on for two reasons. If I'm streamlining my R&D I want to be able to use said A/C the way I choose, and PDU off will restrict that. This is not to say that you'll be able to convert all IJA fighter units to Frank's, you won't. There are limits built into the game that will prevent such things, and rightly so. Also with PDU off its a whole different ballgame as you'll need to develop certain aircraft you might otherwise skip as replacement air groups will need them to be of use. That to me takes more time and I have enough on my plate and don't wish to deal with all that, so its PDU on for me. I mean it really gives the Allies more freedom as well so what's the harm.

quote:

build more Tojos


That's good. Its an early war plane that you'll need for the expansion of the empire. Its also one you can use throughout the whole war, but in a more limited role as time goes on. Remember every early war plane you produce is one less late war aircraft you get. You just won't have the resources to build large numbers of everything. So when it comes to first and second 'generation' aircraft build only what you need. A thousand TojoIIa's will do you no good. OTOH you may want to build several thousand of the IIc's, with heavier firepower and armor.

quote:

Kates


Here's a little hint WRT these guys. Build the first Kate rather than the latter one. It uses a different engine and there's already a 'stockpile' of them at the start of the game. 'Stockpile' is a bit if a lose term here, there's actually about 70 of them, but that's all you should need if you do your R&D properly. That one comes directly from Mike Solli, so thanks to him. The second Kate uses the Ha-35 which you will have a bunch of too, and they're well into production. The problem with this engine is demand is high early in the game and if you're not careful you'll run out before you can increase its output to the required levels. With all that said you'd better R&D the Jill, which is the next Japanese torpedo bomber.

And on and on it goes as all these decisions will impact the next. It takes quite a bit of effort and consideration to come to the desired results, and even then it could be that you'll not quite get what you want. For me it was the last aspect of playing Japan that I delved into properly, but I'm playing the AI so its not that big a deal.

Oh, and there are some twists and turns in the game as well. For instance if you're playing scenario one the Tojo use the Ha-34(?) engine. The question mark is that I'm not 100% sure, but its something like that. Only the Helen bombers use that engine as well. In scenario two the Tojo uses the Ha-35. Why? Don't know, its the Dev's decision. Now that changes things quite a bit, if you consider what's going on here. For instance, do I now want to spend resources on the Helen at all, its not really that different from the Sally and since its the only plane that would use the Ha-34 do I want to make a large investment for a 'one engine' wonder.

On top of all that, and trust me there's a lot more, now you have to consider engine R&D. What good is an air frame without an engine. Just ask the Japanese themselves. Hein, plenty of air frames no engine. Trouble with the development of its liquid cooled engine delayed the planes' development to the extent that eventually Japan fitted a different engine to it to get use of those aforementioned frames. So a whole other layer of complication.

And I could go on and on if you get my drift. So that's why you won't find one of those 'wonderful guides' as you say. You'll see that if anyone else chimes in and gives you their take on the matter, as I'm sure it'll differ substantially from my views.

The above is JMHO, but I hope it helps some. Ciao[:)]




Dutch_slith -> RE: PDU 'off' (7/30/2018 7:39:47 PM)

With PDU off you are in need of Oscars Ic and A6M2 Zeroes. Do not build too much Tojos, there are only a few
Sentais that use this aircraft.

R&D the Zero Line (A6M3a, A6M5 and so on). Later on you get Ki-84, but again, only a few Sentais use this plane.

By the end of 43 your Oscars (IIb) are hopelessly outclassed. So R&D of Oscar III would be a good idea.

You need a lot of Nates for your training squadrons.




dasboot1960 -> RE: PDU 'off' (7/30/2018 7:53:56 PM)

Thank you all! I am an avid Solli reader, but his current AAR is PDU 'off'. I must admit not considering Tojo units will be Tojos regardless, etc until the next upgrade comes through. I basically wanted to escape figuring out PDU 'on' (first game as IJ). I suppose I must delve into Tracker and look for engine requirements on the pre-set upgrades.

Now true or false, I can still potentially speed up the availability of upgrades and sort of 'skip through' lesser upgrades or at least use them for shorter periods can't I?

Also I'm not sure I saw answered - if I change for instance my Ki109 R&D factory to something else, will that craft still come available? (although perhaps with problems producing it immediately?)




RangerJoe -> RE: PDU 'off' (7/30/2018 8:29:07 PM)

quote:

. . . if I change for instance my Ki109 R&D factory to something else, will that craft still come available? (although perhaps with problems producing it immediately


My understanding is that of you do no research on a model it comes on at the historical time. But I haven't played Japanese but for a couple of months once. If you don't change the factory to researching another model, then that factory becomes production.

Also helping research is having a stockpile of 500+ engines for that aircraft. So research/build most of the engines that will be used in your most important airframes with at keeping at least that stockpile.




rustysi -> RE: PDU 'off' (7/30/2018 8:46:22 PM)

quote:

I basically wanted to escape figuring out PDU 'on' (first game as IJ)


PDU on is the easier, nothing to 'figure out'. It stands for 'Player Defined Upgrades', just in case you didn't realize that.

quote:

I can still potentially speed up the availability of upgrades and sort of 'skip through' lesser upgrades


Many players take umbrage at such a method, myself included, and I play Japan. The way I see it the Dev's gave the Japanese a method for staying competitive in aircraft capability. Don't abuse it by 'playing the code' to take advantage of what may have just been an oversight on their part. IOW they may not have realized 'skipping' could be done at all. So for me at least research each plane in the path to production, then move on to the next. Dosen't mean you nee to produce it, just research it. Myself I produce no Tojo IIb's although I do the research before I move on the the Tojo IIc, which I got 1/43 anyway.

For you, you may play it the other way, but I would check with my opponent before trying the method. I brought up the topic a while ago and was surprised to see how many Allied players were unaware that the tactic could even be used. So while you may not have a 'house rule' as such that could be because your opponent may not even know the situation could be played.

quote:

if I change for instance my Ki109 R&D factory to something else, will that craft still come available?


Yes, all aircraft will become operational at their 'historic' dates whether they are researched or not. Spending additional research on a plane will just get it for you earlier if the conditions are met.




Dutch_slith -> RE: PDU 'off' (7/30/2018 8:46:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dasboot1960
Now true or false, I can still potentially speed up the availability of upgrades and sort of 'skip through' lesser upgrades or at least use them for shorter periods can't I?

Also I'm not sure I saw answered - if I change for instance my Ki109 R&D factory to something else, will that craft still come available? (although perhaps with problems producing it immediately?)


True and true.




Dutch_slith -> RE: PDU 'off' (7/30/2018 8:49:59 PM)

But not every air group will upgrade to a useful plane. Some stick to Nate till '45. Others only fly obsolete Oscars. You have to make use of any type you get.




rustysi -> RE: PDU 'off' (7/30/2018 9:13:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dutch_slith

But not every air group will upgrade to a useful plane. Some stick to Nate till '45. Others only fly obsolete Oscars. You have to make use of any type you get.


Not so much with PDU ON. For the most part this allows the player to decide which groups upgrade to which aircraft. Again you won't be able to have all go to one aircraft type, but I don't know of any that are restricted to Nates until '45.




RangerJoe -> RE: PDU 'off' (7/30/2018 9:38:23 PM)

You won't want all fighters to be the same type. Some are better as bomber killers, some as sweepers, some as long range escorts, some as land based fighters, some as carrier fighters, and some doing the night shift.




rustysi -> RE: PDU 'off' (7/30/2018 9:58:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

You won't want all fighters to be the same type. Some are better as bomber killers, some as sweepers, some as long range escorts, some as land based fighters, some as carrier fighters, and some doing the night shift.


I know, I was just pointing out the game mechanics wouldn't allow it anyway.




dasboot1960 -> RE: PDU 'off' (7/30/2018 10:16:25 PM)

Perhaps I misspoke or was misunderstood. I was assuming I must research all upgrades (outside of some Rufe hack I read about toward A6m5)What I meant was I could spend less time with the lesser capable by accelerating towards the next (more capable) I'm not sure I'd see that as gamey. My oppo doesn't care, but it is his first run, and I want to maintain some scruples.




dasboot1960 -> RE: PDU 'off' (7/30/2018 10:19:27 PM)

Thank you all for the replies! I guess I'll be researching late model Oscars and making sure the Nates are all trainers.




GetAssista -> RE: PDU 'off' (7/30/2018 10:42:01 PM)

What you mean in the starting post has nothing to do with PDU on/off (or with realistic R&D on/off for that matter). Japan always has the possibility to skip models along the chain of upgrades. To use it or not is up to players and their agreement

I think this thread has it all http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4354969




rustysi -> RE: PDU 'off' (7/31/2018 5:23:52 PM)

quote:

(outside of some Rufe hack I read about toward A6m5


Just to be clear this is not a 'hack'. It is as the Dev's designed it.

quote:

What I meant was I could spend less time with the lesser capable by accelerating towards the next


Not exactly sure what you're driving at.




rustysi -> RE: PDU 'off' (7/31/2018 5:34:51 PM)

quote:

Japan always has the possibility to skip models along the chain of upgrades. To use it or not is up to players and their agreement


My point here is that not all Allied players are even aware that Japan can do this, and therefore they need to be told of the possibility before they may make an informed decision. I hadn't even realized this until I opened a thread on the matter. TBH there were some long playing members who were unaware until the thread was opened.





rustysi -> RE: PDU 'off' (7/31/2018 5:37:45 PM)

Here is the thread for all who may have missed it:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4199401&mpage=1&key=japanese%2CR%26D#




dasboot1960 -> RE: PDU 'off' (7/31/2018 10:00:38 PM)

Thank you sista! I also appreciate your input rustysi. My opponent is green as grass and 'doesn't care' so I'm trying to make upstanding decisions... he still tried to ambush part of KB after I divided them and chose the greater part... the emperor refuses to offer another restart. I don't want to be gamey under any circumstances, I hate the feeling its being done to me.




Lokasenna -> RE: PDU 'off' (7/31/2018 10:08:12 PM)

Here's my guide to PDU Off.

Step 1: agree with your opponent to play with PDU On




dasboot1960 -> RE: PDU 'off' (8/1/2018 1:12:34 AM)

Well we did that the first time, perhaps I was even off to a good start; but he developed earl USN CV aggresivity syndrome, and when we re-started I decided to simplify my imperial life. Right or wrong, there it is. He still suffers the syndrome, so I may do ok anyway.




rustysi -> RE: PDU 'off' (8/1/2018 7:03:26 PM)

quote:

but he developed earl USN CV aggresivity syndrome


A good way to put yourself into an early hole. Allied CV's need to learn to 'hit 'em where they ain't' in the early game.




RangerJoe -> RE: PDU 'off' (8/1/2018 7:20:31 PM)

Also, if he uses the CVs early around Japanese fighters, he will run out of fighters.




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