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ORIGINAL: JagWars

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Another map change is in the Med. La Spezia no longer borders the western med. In fact, no major Italian port does and subs can be air attacked in minor ports and can't evade. So the Italians have one lower box now in St Vincent sea zone and in most cases, for those that can get there will be a 1 box, 2 if you're real lucky on your sub picks.

Historically, Axis subs did not leave the Mediterranean. The Germans did sneak a few into the Med from the Atlantic by shutting off their engines and allowing the current to pull them through.
I was hoping that this would be corrected in RAW 8, but alias, it appears not.

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ORIGINAL: RFalvo69

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ORIGINAL: Sabre21

Another map change is in the Med. La Spezia no longer borders the western med.

[X(]

I still have to unpack my CE, so I didn't notice this. However, I find it to be a very strange design choice. Basically, you can go around the peninsula and enter the Eastern Med just like that, but you have to spend a movement point to enter... uhm... the very sea area where the port is situated? IIUC the thing, this is not smart [:-]

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ORIGINAL: RickInVA
Every mainland Italian port only fronts on the Italian Coast region. What is wrong with that?

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ORIGINAL: RickInVA

Given the characteristics of the Italian Fleet, mostly 2 range with 5 and 6 movement, if the Med is going to be split into three zones then the new division makes a lot of sense to me. YMMV.

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ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Yes, there are changes in the deployment but I believe this is not the issue. Now I remember which was the problem with the DK reserve, GE declares war, invades and takes Copenhagen before the Danish impulse so that militia never arrives because Copenhagen is taken before the Allied impulse. I guess this needs to be changed in the rules or the Copenhaguen Militia&Reserve is worth for nothing (if it is a reserve as I believe now).

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9.7 Calling out the reserves

Each major power and many minor countries have reserve units that
may now be called out provided they are at war with a major power.
During your impulse you may call out reserves of such major powers
and minor countries you control that have ‘Res’ on the back of their
counter. If a reserve unit has a particular major power named on its
back, you may only call it out while you are at war with that major
power.

I can see it's a 2-2 militia in the #24 countersheet but I cannot see it's back online, to see whether it's a RES as well.

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ORIGINAL: quiritus

The 2-2 is a res, but as you say is not so much relevant this change for denmark: the only is that GE have to arrive to capital in one impulse.

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is relevant for major: GE on first allied S/O 39 impulse don't have res on map and for URSS if GE DOW (no Leningrad MIL as exemple) or Italy if allied dow: no res on board on first enemy impulse (3 div invasion on factory hex have a 50% success 2d10 60% 1d10, fleet also have to be guarded or put in Trieste-Taranto). for most of minor only put a pressure to occupy res city on DOW impulse (UK on portugal as an example, landing on north with div in FE there is 1 GAR the first turn on capital, in CE 1 GAR and 1 MIL fd)

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ORIGINAL: brian brian

No, the Allies can not enter the Baltic, at all, in CE/WiF8, while Denmark is neutral. A side must _control_ Copenhagen, Oslo, or Kiel to do it. Neutrals control their own hexes before they enter the war. It was a good Allied play in WiF7, but is now a Ghost-of-WiF-Past.

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11.4.4. Naval movement restrictions

(...)
4. You can’t move naval units between the Baltic Sea and the North
Sea (even via Frederikshavn or Kristiansand) if:

• no major power on your side controls any of Oslo (W0549),
Copenhagen (W0442) or Kiel, or

• one or more major powers you are at war with control the
other 2.

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(...) As the CW, I would delight in using Home Fleet to obliterate any German force less than an ARM in north Denmark, unless both Belgium and Italy were in the war. Unprepared German players get so upset by it they come close to using the word “cheat” over it, and it subtly throws them off their game.

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ORIGINAL: brian brian

In RaW7, many a German player would be quite sloppy as they over-ran Denmark. They would generally send a unit to Frederikshavn, sure. As CW, my favorite thing to see there was the Tank Destroyer unit - costs 5 BP; commonly sent there due to its 6 movement points. Common to see a motorized division also, or maybe an entire MOT corps.

Also not common to see the Germans set up enough units on the Danish border to take every coastal hex; though Germany certainly has the units available to do that, many German players are greedy on the first turn, invading some 5 other countries (incl. France).

There is also an Allied riposte available for when Germany sets up several fast units on the Danish border - they can be targeted by Ground Strike on the Surprise Impulse.

Now, any time the Germans don’t control every coastal hex before the end-of-turn, the CW controls the hex. And they can then land the Gort HQ, and another corps with it, possibly including their MECH, and the infantry division - no ‘invasion’ required. These units can then attack whatever German force is holding Frederikshavn, and the CW land factors will be doubled by the plentiful Battleships of Home Fleet - my reference to ‘obliteration’, which is near automatic on anything short of a full corps. They might even be able to use the blitz table to R etreat a whole German corps right out of Frederikshavn. (Then serious raids of the Baltic can get rolling on turn 2 with a stack of four “R” class BBs as Churchill dreamed.)

All of that is why I send a true Panzer corps to Frederikshavn, as it is hardly needed in Poland. I have explained this Allied response on here many times; players with a weak rules background don’t understand some of the process here, and many ‘Panzer Heads’ who only ever play Germany and sometimes Russia for variety also don’t understand the capabilities of the Royal Navy. And such players cry Foul when this happens to them, and also claim it doesn’t matter, even when they are faced with losing 3 Swedish resources, a steady drip of Convoy Point losses, perhaps the beginning of the attritrion of the Kriegsmarine, and most seriously of all, the choice between a land impulse and a Combibed impulse. The Axis might also task the Italian NAV to help in the Baltic. When you are responding to an opponents move, you are losing. The Axis should not in any way be doing any response moves in 39/40.

Won’t Gort be needed in France? Possibly. My point is the Allies can also play high-risk, high-reward on the first turn. One bad weather roll and the German campaign in Belgium stops for an impulse, for one. If the Germans roll all good ‘Hitler Weather’ in S/O 39, Gort holding a coastal hex in France is going to make little difference. Only Wavell+Gort will really help then. And quite often the decisive turn in a “France First” is N/D, when the weather rolls become even more fraught. Meanwhile, the Royal Navy can sail, fire weapons, and chew gum at the same time - they can fairly easily shift Gort over to France; they have a variety of these things called Re-Org points, and clever ways to use them.


All of that is quite different in CE8; for example the CW now only has 3 TRS on the first turn, not 4, and Shore Bombardment is substantially weaker. So the CW player whol lands Gort + 2 MOT in France on the first Allied impulse of the game and thinks that is a successful application of their Prime Directive, well that is a little more true now.

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ORIGINAL: paulderynck

The only way that position can happen is if playing with the RR Movement Bonus - a truly awful and unrealistic optional rule that is heavily axis-favorable.

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ORIGINAL: paulderynck

1. It is very attacker favorable, allowing such things as blitz advance into forest and staying face-up if doing so along a RR. Storm and rain (i.e mud) were especially difficult for armored formations in WWII (likely still are) and yet down the narrow corridor of a RR line its no worries to move full movement with all your corps? Really?
2. And the German Army used huge numbers of horse drawn vehicles and guns in WWII and those aren't too viable or fast moving on a RR in storm or rain either.
3. Except for the Smolensk to Moscow highway, the roads in Russia virtually ceased to exist in poor weather in Russia and yet this effect can be ignored along a RR. That's the main point for a lack of realism.
4. The examples in the picture Jose posted are probably the most egregious offenders. How is it that a ferry crossing becomes easier (i.e. less time consuming) because you are moving along a RR?
5. So why axis-favorable when both sides can do it? Because the Axis attacks for the first half of the game and Russia can be knocked out or virtually neutered by the time the allies are ready to go on the offensive.

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ORIGINAL: paulderynck
4. The examples in the picture Jose posted are probably the most egregious offenders. How is it that a ferry crossing becomes easier (i.e. less time consuming) because you are moving along a RR?

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ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Post #48. The Divs cannot take all the hexes marked as German-controlled without RR movement.

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ORIGINAL: paulderynck

1. It is very attacker favorable, allowing such things as blitz advance into forest and staying face-up if doing so along a RR. Storm and rain (i.e mud) were especially difficult for armored formations in WWII (likely still are) and yet down the narrow corridor of a RR line its no worries to move full movement with all your corps? Really?
2. And the German Army used huge numbers of horse drawn vehicles and guns in WWII and those aren't too viable or fast moving on a RR in storm or rain either.
3. Except for the Smolensk to Moscow highway, the roads in Russia virtually ceased to exist in poor weather in Russia and yet this effect can be ignored along a RR. That's the main point for a lack of realism.
4. The examples in the picture Jose posted are probably the most egregious offenders. How is it that a ferry crossing becomes easier (i.e. less time consuming) because you are moving along a RR?
5. So why axis-favorable when both sides can do it? Because the Axis attacks for the first half of the game and Russia can be knocked out or virtually neutered by the time the allies are ready to go on the offensive.

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ORIGINAL: paulderynck

1. It is very attacker favorable, allowing such things as blitz advance into forest and staying face-up if doing so along a RR. Storm and rain (i.e mud) were especially difficult for armored formations in WWII (likely still are) and yet down the narrow corridor of a RR line its no worries to move full movement with all your corps? Really?
2. And the German Army used huge numbers of horse drawn vehicles and guns in WWII and those aren't too viable or fast moving on a RR in storm or rain either.
3. Except for the Smolensk to Moscow highway, the roads in Russia virtually ceased to exist in poor weather in Russia and yet this effect can be ignored along a RR. That's the main point for a lack of realism.
4. The examples in the picture Jose posted are probably the most egregious offenders. How is it that a ferry crossing becomes easier (i.e. less time consuming) because you are moving along a RR?
5. So why axis-favorable when both sides can do it? Because the Axis attacks for the first half of the game and Russia can be knocked out or virtually neutered by the time the allies are ready to go on the offensive.

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ORIGINAL: rkr1958

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ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Post #48. The Divs cannot take all the hexes marked as German-controlled without RR movement.

OK, actually I posted that picture. I thought you'd might be referring to something in another thread. [:)]