Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (Full Version)

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dave sindel -> Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/2/2018 11:49:20 PM)

I have tried to rebuild this division for months, at various bases on it's long series of missions. I have looked and looked and for the life of me I can not figure out why this one won't recombine. I've rebuilt divisions before, so it's not like I dont understand how to do it. But this one has me stumped and I need some fresh eyes to look at it.

[image]local://upfiles/20177/D03F4C19B492413FB06CDC569F15954D.jpg[/image]



BillBrown -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/2/2018 11:54:33 PM)

Click on the Unit Organization button on one of them and take a screen shot of that and post it.
I am looking to see if there is a fragment somewhere, although it doesn't look like it.

The other thing to try is to set them all to different operations mode and then switch back to see
if there is something hidden that did not get reset right.



durnedwolf -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 3:02:23 AM)

And check to make sure you don't have a fragment somewhere [;)]



inqistor -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 6:53:02 AM)

Looks ok to me. When have you split it?

My guess is, one of the devices have not upgraded. It's hard to check, because there are few devices with exactly the same name, but different production numbers, or something like that. Are you using beta patch? It shows which devices can upgrade.



GetAssista -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 7:54:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor
Looks ok to me. When have you split it?

My guess is, one of the devices have not upgraded. It's hard to check, because there are few devices with exactly the same name, but different production numbers, or something like that. Are you using beta patch? It shows which devices can upgrade.

Non-coinciding devices are highlighted with ** in this case

My bet is on fragment stuck elsewhere, like some motorized support not making it on a ships, a frequent occurence



dave sindel -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 11:41:01 AM)

Here's the screenshot of the unit organization, per Bill Brown's request. It doesnt appear there is a fragment anywhere.

[image]local://upfiles/20177/7F99462F29AD42CAA59CF91B0A8E6147.jpg[/image]



dave sindel -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 11:43:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

Looks ok to me. When have you split it?

My guess is, one of the devices have not upgraded. It's hard to check, because there are few devices with exactly the same name, but different production numbers, or something like that. Are you using beta patch? It shows which devices can upgrade.


I split it early in the game as I recall, to make it easier to buy out and transport. I have had the 3 sections together in several locations - and never had any success in rebuilding.



PaxMondo -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 12:33:46 PM)

Well, you have upgrades enabled if I am reading the screenshot correctly. You never, ever, want to do that when you have units split. That said, in this case, it looks more like a bit error somewhere in the data file. Meaning, you have a minor bug and there is no fix. Sorry. Minor issue, you have just have a div in 3 reg's … no major impact on the game except you have 2 extra clicks per turn when addressing that units (in most cases).

Good Luck!



m10bob -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 12:38:30 PM)

Merely a WAG...can the lack of sufficient support have any bearing?..We see you have plenty of supply, and I see no other problems either?
Of course the area of command might also be a prohibitive "filter" compared to Wenchow, as well?



GetAssista -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 1:00:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dave sindel
Here's the screenshot of the unit organization, per Bill Brown's request. It doesnt appear there is a fragment anywhere.

Nothing looks wrong here, seems like a bug to me. HQs, squads, devices and modes are all aligned so there is no reason to not recombine. Other factors do not play a role
In a pinch you could disband 2 regiments (or maybe just 1, the buggy one) and the remaining would be able to turn into an understrength division which you could then fill up. But there is no reason to do this in summer 44.

Michaelm might be eventually interested in your save.


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Well, you have upgrades enabled if I am reading the screenshot correctly. You never, ever, want to do that when you have units split. That said, in this case, it looks more like a bit error somewhere in the data file. Meaning, you have a minor bug and there is no fix. Sorry. Minor issue, you have just have a div in 3 reg's … no major impact on the game except you have 2 extra clicks per turn when addressing that units (in most cases).

Succesively upgrading regiments is a very useful tactics when you lack full complement of new squads. Speeds up the ability for about half a year for Allies depending on nation, so "never ever" is not a good advice here.
Then, 3 regiments are not as resistant to damage as is a full division, and great commanders for regiments are harder to come by. So it is not full eqiuvalence.



kbfchicago -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 1:21:06 PM)

Look at location in the upper left, /C notes grid "99/100" vs. the other two show they are at "100/100". Since they are visually in the same hex I would try moving /C out and into the hex again to see if location updates to grid 100/100. Or move all three together to a new hex and see if the locations sync back up. Can not say I've seen this before...so may be a red herring. Kevin



GetAssista -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 1:24:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kbfchicago
Look at location in the upper left, /C notes grid "99/100" vs. the other two show they are at "100/100". Since they are visually in the same hex I would try moving /C out and into the hex again to see if location updates to grid 100/100. Or move all three together to a new hex and see if the locations sync back up. Can not say I've seen this before...so may be a red herring. Kevin

It shows that /C is 99% ready because one support squad is disabled. Others are 100% ready



kbfchicago -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 1:27:45 PM)

Ah, yes. Thanks Assista.



BillBrown -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 1:31:02 PM)

Have you tried my second option? Reset all of the movement modes to strat mode and see if that will clear things. I remember some problems a long time ago with some fields not getting reset when movement modes were changed.



ny59giants -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 2:54:13 PM)

When you have "Unit Organization' open, click on each of the three components to ensure none has a fragment. Also, hit the "G" button to pull up all your ground units to see if there is a fragment there when you sort.



Yaab -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 2:59:16 PM)

The three regts seem legit for recombining. Guess some wench from Wenchow threw a wrench in your plans, dave sindel.



dave sindel -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 3:37:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

Have you tried my second option? Reset all of the movement modes to strat mode and see if that will clear things. I remember some problems a long time ago with some fields not getting reset when movement modes were changed.


Havent tried this as yet - expecting a turn this afternoon from my PBEM opponent and will try this option then. I'm glad that I am not the only one who cant put a finger on what seems to be the issue... [&:]



Alfred -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 5:30:16 PM)

This is not a bug and it is quite easy to resolve.

The parent is attached to West Coast.  The sub units are attached to Southwest Pacific and therefore are not attached to the correct HQ.  The HQ of the parent and sub units must be the same for the rebuild button to be available.

Alfred



ericv -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 5:44:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

This is not a bug and it is quite easy to resolve.

The parent is attached to West Coast.  The sub units are attached to Southwest Pacific and therefore are not attached to the correct HQ.  The HQ of the parent and sub units must be the same for the rebuild button to be available.

Alfred

[&o]



GetAssista -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 6:19:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

This is not a bug and it is quite easy to resolve.

The parent is attached to West Coast.  The sub units are attached to Southwest Pacific and therefore are not attached to the correct HQ.  The HQ of the parent and sub units must be the same for the rebuild button to be available.

Alfred

This is not true ingame, and can be easily tested as long as you have PPs in any save. As long as subunits have same HQ it does not matter what the parent has designated. I buy out and recombine divisions this way all the time

Edit: note that the dreaded practice of buying out LCUs into air hqs would not be possible if that were true. I mean piecemeal buying out of course, as soon as pps are ready. Did that a lot

Edit2: on second thought, you may have meant the highest level HQ to be the same. Airgroups belong to those, so 1/4 cost trick keeps highest level HQ unchanged. In this case I do not have readily available memory, and have to get to the game to test stuff. Probably shows that I prefered paying 1/4 costs in AI games a lot more [8|]

Edit3: loaded up a test scenario with lots of pps. Attached picture recombines just fine. In fact I was not able to find any combination of parent HQ/ subunits HQ that prevented rebuilding. Tried quite a lot.

[image]local://upfiles/32892/FD32589B08E349098B0AA68F9C349F37.jpg[/image]



BillBrown -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 8:08:36 PM)

When I tested it, I got this result:
The Division can be rebuilt even though the parent is set to West Coast and
the children are set to Southwest Pacific.


[image]local://upfiles/6818/5939E236E7594BC594B9085A85A534E0.jpg[/image]



btd64 -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 8:10:55 PM)

Exactly....GP



PaxMondo -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 10:25:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Succesively upgrading regiments is a very useful tactics when you lack full complement of new squads. Speeds up the ability for about half a year for Allies depending on nation, so "never ever" is not a good advice here.
Then, 3 regiments are not as resistant to damage as is a full division, and great commanders for regiments are harder to come by. So it is not full eqiuvalence.


Yes, but for me the risk of not being able to re-combine is greater than the benefit of getting 1 regiment upgraded a few months earlier. Moreso now when we essentially have lost dev support, so a savegame 'save' from a dev is now far from guaranteed.




BBfanboy -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 11:07:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

Looks ok to me. When have you split it?

My guess is, one of the devices have not upgraded. It's hard to check, because there are few devices with exactly the same name, but different production numbers, or something like that. Are you using beta patch? It shows which devices can upgrade.

There could be something to this. IIRC while I was in the editor there are different devices called "scout car" and "halftrack", which are meant to be assigned to different nationalities, i.e. different pools. Open the Editor and look at the mod and see if different device numbers are involved for the same device slot. Shouldn't happen with a division formed and then split, but when tinkering in the database things can get squirrelly.

Having said that, the data error that was mentioned sounds like the most likely culprit.



dave sindel -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/3/2018 11:14:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

When I tested it, I got this result:
The Division can be rebuilt even though the parent is set to West Coast and
the children are set to Southwest Pacific.


[image]local://upfiles/6818/5939E236E7594BC594B9085A85A534E0.jpg[/image]


Bill, I tested your theory of changing the status of the 3 units, and it didnt make a difference. It's not a big deal, I can use these 3 on garrison duty along the coast of China in places like Foochow and Wenchow and Hangchow.



Lokasenna -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/4/2018 12:45:12 AM)

Can you repeat the original post, but this time with the TOE of the units showing instead of the current status of the unit? I am wondering if there is somehow a difference in the subunit TOEs.



CaptBeefheart -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/4/2018 2:13:49 AM)

It's a longshot, but did you click "unit organization" for each of the three division pieces? You seem light on engineers and I wonder if there's a fragment of forgotten engineers sitting on a beach somewhere drinking maitais with the nurses while their poor brethren slog it out in China.

[EDIT: I see NY59Giants had this idea above.]

By the way, it can dangerous having all three division pieces on "upgrade allowed." One of those might get 57mm AT guns and it'll take a lot of effort to sort that out. Stockpiling 57mm guns is another solution, though.

Cheers,
CC



Lowpe -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/4/2018 2:19:57 AM)

What is not mentioned is what version of the game, if the beta is being used, and if this is a modded game.

The latest game release with the beta will show a double asterisk when there is a device type that is preventing a splinter rebuild like pictured below.

An equal sign would denote an upgrade available. For example: **=



[image]local://upfiles/44178/7E92F9E3BE0745D783BE9D41C4749DA8.jpg[/image]



BillBrown -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/4/2018 2:32:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

What is not mentioned is what version of the game, if the beta is being used, and if this is a modded game.

The latest game release with the beta will show a double asterisk when there is a device type that is preventing a splinter rebuild like pictured below.

An equal sign would denote an upgrade available. For example: **=


They show up in the 11.24 version also.



GetAssista -> RE: Can someone explain why this division won't recombine? (9/4/2018 7:41:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista
Succesively upgrading regiments is a very useful tactics when you lack full complement of new squads. Speeds up the ability for about half a year for Allies depending on nation, so "never ever" is not a good advice here.
Then, 3 regiments are not as resistant to damage as is a full division, and great commanders for regiments are harder to come by. So it is not full eqiuvalence.

Yes, but for me the risk of not being able to re-combine is greater than the benefit of getting 1 regiment upgraded a few months earlier. Moreso now when we essentially have lost dev support, so a savegame 'save' from a dev is now far from guaranteed.

I did partial upgrades a lot and never had any problems with recombining, and only had to wait some a couple times when I forgot about the due process and partially upgraded devices with thin pools. You just need to adhere to some safety measures:
- Pick a division to upgrade, preferrably in some major base with supply.
- Make sure upgrade tick is off
- Note all the non-squad devices that need upgrades amd make sure they are stockpiled in the pools
- Then split the division and turn upgrades on for 1st regiment
- Wait for it to receive new squads as upgrades then turn upgrades on for 2nd regiment
- Repeat for 3rd
- Now recombine the division and turn upgrade on to upgrade devices. The latter now can be switched off stockpiling in pools.

Naturally, upgrades should be routinely turned off in all the other LCUs with old squads and devices. Only one division at a time

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
What is not mentioned is what version of the game, if the beta is being used, and if this is a modded game.

The latest game release with the beta will show a double asterisk when there is a device type that is preventing a splinter rebuild like pictured below.

All squads and devices have identical names in all 3 regs the OP posted. Which is enough to conclude they are in fact identical. There are very few devices in US TOE that share the same name being parts of same upgrade chain, and I don't see those in TOE



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