OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney updated June 23, 2020

OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney updated June 23, 2020 (Full Version)

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nnason -> OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney updated June 23, 2020 (9/11/2018 6:44:32 PM)
All, This tournament is completed. Markiss has graciously started a new tournament. "The Land" found several errors in the calculations of my spreadsheet. He fixed them and put a lot of time into improving it. Because the calculations were wrong it was awarding to many points to the higher winners and subtracting to many points from the lower losers. The new values are posted. However, the changed numerical values did not change the overall ranking. 1. We will start with the ELO results from last tournament. 2. We will use the ELO system located at this URL https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/98469/elo-generator. 3. Players who play and win will move up. If you play a player who is ahead in the standings and win you get more points. If you win against a player that is behind you in the standings you get slightly less points. The contrary is true if you are the looser. If you don't play then others that are playing and winning will eventually pass you. If you don't play for 6 months you will be suspended until you start playing again. In the meantime, your rating will not be shown. I will endeavor to update ELO standings each time a game is finished. 4. You can play more than one game at a time. All players are encouraged to play both as Allies and Axis against the same player. For the time being the only benefit of this is in case of ties. This might change. 5. Playing has 4 steps: a. Post your desire to play and side you wish. b. Accept a challenge already posted. c. Both sides confirm start of game and sides. Optional post an After Action Report d. Post who won include side, game date of win, and whether it was a surrender, Decisive, Major or Minor win. For the time being the only benefit of win type is in case of ties. This might change. 6. This tourney is for the 1939 Campaign. First Tournament ELO results and starting results for second/ongoing tournament Sugar 1087.82 GAMES 6 KZ 1073.66 RETIRED 10 September 2018 GAMES 7 pig100 1014.89 GAMES 1 johanssb 1014.89 GAMES 1 Sillyflower 1014.89 GAMES 1 Hberg 1014.89 GAMES 1 room 1014.44 GAMES 3 Rannug61 999.11 GAMES 6 NOTE has 3 wins whereas the next 5 players above have only 1 win. IrishGuards 1000.11 GAMES 4 NOTE has 2 wins whereas 5 players above have only 1 win. MrLongLeg 999.66 GAMES 2 HamburgerMeat 999.66 GAMES 2 Taxman66 999.66 GAMES 2 LLv34Mika 985.00 GAMES 3 Ironclad 985.00 GAMES 1 BPINisBack 984.66 GAMES 3 Amadeus 970.00 GAMES 2 bullet912 969.89 GAMES 2 PJL1973 969.89 GAMES 2 Ktonos 969.89 GAMES 2 nnason 969.88 GAMES 2 YohanTM 969.11 GAMES 6 NOTE has 2 wins whereas the next 5 players above have no wins. ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ongoing games: this section removed to hard to keep up ------------------------------------ GAME RESULTS: Sept 19, 201 YohanTM (Axis) and BPINisBACK (Allies). WON by BPINisBACK Game win TBP game date TBP Sept 30, 2018 LLv34Mika (Axis) and PJL1973 (Allies). WON by LLv34Mika. Surrender on game date April 1941,. Oct 4, 2018 MrLongLeg (Allies) and Sugar (Axis). WON by Sugar. Surrender on Summer 1942. ---- Oct 9, 2018 Bolko (Axis) and Sugar (Allies) WON by Sugar Game TBP on game date TBP. Oct 16, 2018 HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Ktonos (Axis) WON by Ktonos Surrender on game date April 1942 Oct 17, 2018 Bolko (Axis) vs MrLongLeg (Allies) WON by MrLongleg Surrender on game date Feb 1943. Oct 19, 2018 Rannug61 (axis) and PJL1973(allies) WON by Rannug61. Game TBP. Date TBP. ----------- Oct 19 2018 Bolko (Axis) Irish Guards (Allies) WON by Irishguards. Surrender on game date Jan 1941. Oct 23, 2018 BPINisBACK (Axis) and ktonos (Allies). WON by Ktonos Allied Victory July 1944. Oct 26, 2018 Jeff_Ahl (Axis) and Dmondragon75 (Allies) WON by Dmondragon75 Surrender turn 74. Oct 26, 2018 Taxman (Axis) and Markiss (Allies) WON by Taxman Surrender Sept.1942 Oct 26, 2018 Bolko (Axis) vs Ktonos (Allies WON by Ktonos Surrender Oct. 1940 Oct 26, 2016 Ktonos (Axis) and IrishGuards(Allies) WON by Ktonos Surrender Oct. 1942 Oct 29, 2018 Rannug61 (Axis) and Markiss (Allies) WON by Rannug61 Axis victory May 30, 1945 Oct 30, 2018 Fafnir(axis) vs Dmondragon75 (allies) WON by Fafnir Surrender date TBD. --------------------------------------- Nov 08, 2018 Rannug61 (Allies) vs Bolko (Axis) WON by Rannug61 Surrender date TBD Nov 08, 2018 Demondragon61 (Allies) vs Bolko (Axis) WON by Demon Surrender date TBD Nov 21, 2018 Fafnir(Allies) vs Ktonos (Axis) WON by Fafnir Surrender date December 1940 -------------------------------------- Nov 23, 2018 Fafnir (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) WON by Fafnir ЕЕЕЕЕЕЕЕЕЕ.. Nov 29, 2018 Fafnir (axis) vs Hiberg (Allies) WON by Fsfnir Axis Decisive victory July 1043 Nov 29, 2018 BPINISback (axis) VS Markiss (Allies) WON by BPINisBACK Surrender Spring 1944 Nov 29, 2018 Ktonos (Allies) vs Markiss (Axis) WON by Ktonos Surrender Dec 1942 Nov 30, 2018 nnason (Axis) against Bolko (Allies) WON by nnason Surrender date TBD NOTE Bolko had family issue. Dec 1, 2018 Ktonos (Allies) vs Jeff_ahl (Axis) Won by Ktonos Surrender July 1940 Dec 4, 2018 Ktonos (Axis) vs PJL1973 (Allies) Won by Ktonos Surrender April 1941 Dec 9, 2018 SalGoodman (Axis) vs. Taxman66 (Allies) Won by SaulGoodman Surrender date TBD Dec 10, 2018 Fafnir (Axis) vs. Dmonfragon75 (Allies) Won by Fafnir Surrender August 1942 Dec 13, 2018 Javichu (Axis) vs nnason (Allies) WON by Javichu Axis Major victory date TBD had everything but London Congrats to Javichu for his first tournament game. Dec 19, 2018 BPINisBACK (Allies) vs. guggy (Axis) WON by BPINisBACK Allies Decisive in think June 1945 long game congrats to both. Dec 20, 2018 Dmondragon (Allies) vs nnason (Axis) WON by Dmongragon Surrender May 42 Dec 20, 2018 Ktonos (Allies) vs nnason (Axis) WON by Ktonos Surrender July 1940 Jan 5, 2019 Hartmann301 (Axis) vs Markiss (Allies) Won by Hartman301 victory October 1944 Jan 6, 2019 Rannug61 (Allies) vs Elcondoro (Axis) Won by Rannug61 Victory Feb 1944 Jan 16, 2019 SaulGoodman (Allies) vs. Hartmann301 Won bb SaulGoodman Feb 23, 2019 Rannug61 (Axis) vs. ElCondoro Won by Axis Victory Summer 1944 Feb 28, 2019 Hartmann301 (Axis) vs. Elcondoro Won by Hartmann301 Victory July 1944 Mar 3, 2019 Mika (Axis) vs. Markiss (Allies) Won by Mika Victory July 1945 Mar 8, 2019 Room (Allies) vs. Hartmann301 Won by room Victory Summer 1946 Very long game At this point Allies 36 and Axis 33 Mar 16 2019 Ktonos (Allies) vs. Rannug61 (Axis) Won by Ktonos Victory Fall 1944 Apr 02 2019 nnason (Allies) vs Giovanni705 (Axis) Won by Giovanni70 Surrender 1942 Apr 04 2019 Hartmann301 (Axis) vs nnason (Allies) Won by Hartmann301 surrender July 1942 Apr 05 2019 Irishguards (Allies) vs. El Condoro (Axis) Won by Irishguards 1943 Apr 06 2019 Azhraden (Allies) vs. Rannug61 (Axis) Won by Azhraden win July 1945 Apr 09 2019 Etzel (Allies) vs Davidfaust (Axis) Won by Etzel 1941 Apr 16 2019 Elveranomaslargo (Allies) vs Hartmann301 (Axis) Won by Elveranomaslargo July 1945 Apr 16 2019 DavidFaust (Allies) vs Rannug61 (Axis Won by Rannug61 Surrender July 1943 Apr 17 2019 DavidFaust (Allies) vs Hartmann301 (Axis) Won by Hartmann301 Surrender Sept 19 Apr 22 2019 LLv34Mika (Allies) vs Hartmann301 (Axis) Won by LLv34Mika Sept 1945 Apr 22 2019 Markiss (Allies) vs Elveranomaslargo (Axis) Won be Elveranomaslargo August 1943 Please note who won was changed 20170516 Apr 23 2019 Janichu (Allies) vs nnason (Axis) Won by nnason Surrender 1942 Apr 23 2019 Ktonos (Allies) vs nnason (Axis) Won by Ktonos Surrender Feb 1942 May 30 2019 Elveranomaslargo (Allies) vs Fafnir (Axis) Won by Fafnir Decisive July 1943 May 30 2019 PJL1973 (Allied) vs Elveranomaslargo (Axis) Won by Elveranomaslargo decisive March 1943 Jun 09 2019 Markiss (Allies) vs Etzel (Axis) Won by Etzel Surrender July 1942 Jun 12 2019 Rannug61 (Allies) vs Markiss(Axis) Won by Rannug61 Surrender Summer 1943 Jun 17 2019 Gilber (Allies) vs. Fafnir (Axis) Won by Fafnir Surrender Spring 1941 Jun 21 2019 Rannug61 (Allies) vs. Fafnir (Axis) Won by Fafnir Victory March 1943 Jun 25 2019 Gilber (Allies) vs. Rannug61 (Axis) Won by Rannug61 Surrender 1941 Jun 26 2019 Taxmann66 vs. Fafnir (Axis) Won by Fafnir Surrender January 1941 Jun 29 2019 Elcondoro (Allies) vs. Rannug61 (Axis) Won by Rannug61 Victory Fall 1943 Jun 30 2019 Gilber (Allies) vs. Ktonos (Axis) Won by Ktonos Surrender Sept 1942 Jul 02 2019 Ktonos (Allies) vs. ElCondor (Axis) Won by Ktonos Allied Victory Late 1944 winner changed 4 July 2019 Jul 05 2019 Gronivaure (Axis) vs Gilber (Allies) Won by Gronivaure Axis victory Summer 1941 Jul 20 2019 Rannug61 (Allies) vs ElCondoro (Axis) Won by Rannug61 Allies August 44 Jul 20 2019 Ktonos (Axis) vs Gilber (Allies) Won by Ktonos Axis May 43 Jul 21 2019 Fafnir (Axis) vs ElCondoro (Allies) Won by Fafnir Axis Summer 43 Jul 26 2019 Fafnir (Axis) vs Ktonos (Allies) Won by Fafnir Axis Fall 43 Jul 31 2019 Gronivaure (axis) vs BPINuis Back (Allies) Won by Gronivaure Axis 27 July 1945 Aug 01 2019 Gilber (Allies) vs ElCondoro (Axis) Won by Gilber Allies Spring 1945 Aug 01 2019 Etzel (Axis) vs Dario Stolfa (Allies) Won by Etzel Axis October 1942 Sep 09 2019 Etzel (Axis) vs nnason (Allies) Won by Etzel Axis Sept 42 -- Sep 17 2019 Fafnir (Axis) vs Gilber (Allies) Won by Fafnir Axis Surrender 1940 Sep 18 2019 Ktonos (Axis) vs Markiss (Allies) Won by Ktonos Axis Decisive Victory Summer 1943 --- Oct 05 2019 Fafnir (Axis) vs Rannug61 (Allies) Won by Fafnir AxiSummer 1943 Oct 08 2019 Gilber (Allies ) vs Hartmann301 (Axis) Won by Gilber Surrender 1941 Oct 13 2019 Fafnir (Allies) vs Markiss (Axis) Won by Fafnir Allied victory July 1943 Oct 17 2019 Rannug61 (Allies) vs ElCondoro ((Axis) Won by Rannug61 Allied victory Spring 1944 Oct 25 2019 Taifun (Axis) vs Rannug61 (Allies) Won by Taifun Allied surrender Oct 1942 Oct 2019 Gilber (Allies) vs BPINisBACK (Axis) won by Gilber ..... Nov 30 2019 Markiss (Allies) vs ELCondoro (Axis) Won by MArkiss Allied Victory Nov 1944 Dec 09 2019 Rannug61 (Allied ) vs Ktnonos (Axis) Won by Rannug61 TOURNAMENT GAME Dec 2019 Elcondoro (Axis) vs Gilber (Allies) Won by Gilber Allied Victroy Summer 1944 TOURNAMENT GAME Dec 15 2019 Taifun (Allies) vs Markiss (Axis) Won by Taifun Summer 1943 Dec 2019 Gilber (Axis) vs Taifun (Allies) won by Gilber Axis Victory May 1943 TOURNAMENT GAME Jan 01 2020 Hartnmann301 (Axis) vs Markiss (Allies) Won by Hartmann301 Axis Victory August 1943 Jan 13 2020 Taifun (Allies) vs nnason (Axis) Won by Taifun April 1941 surrender. TOURNAMENT GAME Jan 18 2020 Ironclad (Allies) vs Hartmann301 (Axis) Won by Hartmann301 Allied surrenders July 43 Jan 25 2020 Taifun (Allies) vs Hartmann310 (Axis) Won by Taifun Surrender Sept 1940 Second game with Taifun hold that line defense Jan 27 2020 BPINisBACK (Allies) vs Hartmann301 (Axis) won by Hartmann301 minor victgory May 47 Feb 03 2020 Elveramaslarge (Allies) vs Etzel (Axis) won by Etzel victory July 1944 TOURNAMENT GAME Feb 2020 Elcondoro (Allies) vs Gilber (Axis) won by Gilber Allied surrender date .... TOURNAMENT GAME Feb 21 2020 Ktnonos (Allies) vs Etzel (Axis) Etzel victory dec 1044 TOURNAMENT GAME Mar 21 2020 Fafnir (Allies) vs Gilber (Axis) Fafnir victory July 1942 Apr 02 2020 Markiss (Allies) vs BPINisBACK (Axis) Markiss victory Aug 1945 Apr 24 2020 ElCondoro (Allies) vs Markiss (Axis) ElCondoro victoru June 1945 UPDATED as of June 23, 2020 And this is now done. Fafnir 1,185.3 Etzel 1,084.6 Sugar 1,091.8 Ktonos 1,058.1 Rannug61 1,073.1 KZ 1,061.1 Taifun 1,036.1 Hartmann301 1,030.7 LLv34Mika 1,017.2 Gronivaure 1,030.3 roon 1,029.8 Azhraden 1,018.4 Javichu 994.6 Giovanni705 1,013.2 pig100 1,016.8 johanssb 1,016.0 Sillyflower 1,016.0 Hberg 1,001.1 SaulGoodman 1,032.6 IrishGuards 1,016.5 Dmondragon 1,013.2 Elveranomaslargo 1,012.7 MrLongLeg 1,004.0 gilber 975.0 guggy 983.9 Dario Stolfa 985.3 Ironclad 969.5 HamburgerMeat 983.2 Taxman66 987.4 Amadeus 966.7 bullet912 968.7 Jeff_Ahl 968.6 DavidFaust 955.4 BPINisBack 945.4 YohanTM 955.3 PJL1973 915.1 Bolko 905.2 ElCondoro 875.2 nnason 901.9 Markiss 888.7 total of 60 Allied wins and 64 Axis wins. NOTE I AM ALWAYS OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS AND/OR CORRECTIONS. NOTE NOTE NOTE ---------------------------- Several players have asked about house rules are they allowed or not. We had a discussion on the other tournament tread. Ideas seem to be mixed and I didn't say either way at the start of this tournament. However, at least two games are using house rules one for UBER-Diplo and one for soft builds. I think that as long as both players agree in advance in writing that a single house rule is OK. THOUGHTS??? LAST POST/UPDATE OF THIS ELO TOURNAMENT onto the new ELO TOURNAMENT.

Sugar -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/11/2018 8:42:43 PM)
I suggest every ongoing game has to be announced, and players bypassed in the rating should have the right to challenge the bypasser. For players with less time to play, lower ranked players should be aloud to choose the side.

YohanTM2 -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/11/2018 10:22:33 PM)
Good luck all!

nnason -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/12/2018 11:04:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sugar I suggest every ongoing game has to be announced, and players bypassed in the rating should have the right to challenge the bypasser. For players with less time to play, lower ranked players should be aloud to choose the side. Sugar I like your ideas. 1. All games do have to be announced. 2. Are you suggesting the following: A. If lower ranking player A starts a game with higher ranking player B and then player C between the two players in rank can challenge player A. (If challenge is not accepted, then what? Suggestions) B. For players with less time to play, then what? Suggestions C. For games with a lower ranked player, the lower ranked player gets to choose the side. D. For games between equal rankings (less that a 3 points,) then what? Suggestions

nnason -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/12/2018 11:12:06 AM)
All, KZ says he is retiring from Strategic Cmd and his ELO score should be marked as retired. Lets hope after the battle fatigue wears off, he will change his mind!!! NOTE: A player who hasn't played in six months is automatically suspended. Perhaps what we need to do is have a retired category for players stating they are moving on and a suspended category for players that disappear. And note both in the rankings rather than having then fall off.

Sugar -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/12/2018 12:46:15 PM)
quote: A. If lower ranking player A starts a game with higher ranking player B and then player C between the two players in rank can challenge player A. (If challenge is not accepted, then what? Suggestions) B. For players with less time to play, then what? Suggestions A. Just in case a high ranking player can't find willing victims and therefore losing score. Afaik other than in the ladder system, nobodie's forced to play certain higher ranked players. B. For players who lack the time to play mirror games.

Ktonos -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/12/2018 5:56:21 PM)
Looking for a game too. Sugar thanks for redirecting me to this thread

LLv34Mika -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/12/2018 7:11:36 PM)
already playing vs pjl1973 he is playing the allies Poland, Denmark, Norway and Netherlands are mine. April 1940

HamburgerMeat -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/13/2018 5:02:27 PM)
Game currently ongoing between me (axis) and Hberg (allies)

Ktonos -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/13/2018 5:29:17 PM)
If Elo is the thing now, shouldn't the type of victory and even the date of victory play a role in the scoring? Eg Player #4 vs Player #2: Player #2 wins Major victory in 1946. Player #3 vs Player #2. Player #2 wins Decisive victory in 1943. Shouldn't Player #4 score more than player #3? Shouldn't Player #2 take more points from his second game rather than his first? It could be done with a simple formula, like Points in victory = (10%-Y)(opponent's points)X Points in defeat = (10%+Y)(opponent's points)X Where X is 4 Decisive Victory, 1.5 Major Victory, 0.5 Major Defeat, 0.1 Decisive Defeat and Y = Game years 1% (eg game ends in 1944 = 5%) Just brainstorming

nnason -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/13/2018 6:29:11 PM)
Ktonos, Please keep brainstorming. I was thinking of doing something like this. See Tourney 1 thread for discussion.

Ktonos -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/13/2018 10:08:56 PM)
So, I did some research and found the formula used for Elo ratings. Then I went and produced an excel format. It's simple, enter rating of players in first box. Then enter result for each player in second box (1 victory, 0 defeat, 0.5 for draws) New Elo will be calculated in the final box. The K-Rating I have to the right, is a modifier on how severe the Elo change will be. Chess uses a K rating of 32. Did some playtest and it seems with a 32 K-Rating changes are kind of slow for a tourney that will have 4-8 games per player. Anyways, here it is. https://www.filedropper.com/eloratingcalculator Edit: 1. To add decisive victories/ defeats, we could the Match Result box input values like this: (1.2 Decisive victory, 1 victory, 0.5 draw, 0.2 major defeat, 0 decisive defeat) 2. I would suggest a K rating of at least 50, maybe 75, if we want each game result to have a meaningful effect.

Taxman66 -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/13/2018 10:44:03 PM)
Ktonons, decisive victories/defeats are all that will ever occur with the given in game victory conditions. In order to get something less the game has to go to 1947 without the Allies Conquering the Axis (or the Axis getting all the victory cities they need for decisive victory). It will never happen.

Ktonos -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/13/2018 11:06:55 PM)
If the allies offer peace after Lenningrad, Stalingrad and Moscow fall, and axis accepts its a major not a decisive victory. Anyways. I agree that a simple victory-defeat approach should be adopted.

nnason -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/15/2018 12:43:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ktonos So, I did some research and found the formula used for Elo ratings. Then I went and produced an excel format. It's simple, enter rating of players in first box. Then enter result for each player in second box (1 victory, 0 defeat, 0.5 for draws) New Elo will be calculated in the final box. The K-Rating I have to the right, is a modifier on how severe the Elo change will be. Chess uses a K rating of 32. Did some playtest and it seems with a 32 K-Rating changes are kind of slow for a tourney that will have 4-8 games per player. Anyways, here it is. https://www.filedropper.com/eloratingcalculator Edit: 1. To add decisive victories/ defeats, we could the Match Result box input values like this: (1.2 Decisive victory, 1 victory, 0.5 draw, 0.2 major defeat, 0 decisive defeat) 2. I would suggest a K rating of at least 50, maybe 75, if we want each game result to have a meaningful effect. Ktonos, I appreciate your help. Are you suggesting we use what you developed verses the spreadsheet I am using? If so why? How to work decisive verses something else is an ongoing discussion. I am open to all ideas.

Ktonos -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/15/2018 1:08:20 AM)
Didn't see that before. No, if the file from BBG works there's no need to change it.

HamburgerMeat -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/15/2018 11:02:05 PM)
(EDIT:Found a game)

guggy -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/16/2018 4:47:17 AM)
Hello, Is it an ongoing tourney where we can join the ride after the official starting date ? If yes, I would like to join the party...

Ktonos -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/16/2018 1:00:07 PM)
Game started, HamburgerMeat (Allies) vs Ktonos (Axis) I would be open for a couple of games more, so anyone open can PM me

IrishGuards -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/16/2018 4:27:52 PM)
Looking for game ?? IG

Ktonos -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/16/2018 4:49:49 PM)
Sure. I can play any side, send me pass and I will join.

Ktonos -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/18/2018 4:58:20 PM)
Game started, IrishGuards(Allies) vs Ktonos (Axis) Could play one more, as Allies preferably, tourney or exhibition

Azhraden -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/18/2018 6:47:39 PM)
Hello, Looking for a game as allied. Azh

YohanTM2 -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/19/2018 9:44:00 AM)
Good morning, I concede to BPINisBACK and withdraw from the tournament (and am finished with SC3). There have been many discussions about the flaws in this game (although it has been a fun time waster). The nail in the coffin for me is the ridiculous victory conditions. For the first time I played a game into 1945 (yes, first time in all the years the game has been out). I controlled most of the board including Moscow, most of ME, Spain, still had Paris and Italy and it turns out the victory conditions are so ill thought out that you have to play until 1947 for a stalemate. Wish you more fun with the tournament then the enjoyment I am having...

BillRunacre -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/19/2018 3:23:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: YohanTM2 Good morning, I concede to BPINisBACK and withdraw from the tournament (and am finished with SC3). There have been many discussions about the flaws in this game (although it has been a fun time waster). The nail in the coffin for me is the ridiculous victory conditions. For the first time I played a game into 1945 (yes, first time in all the years the game has been out). I controlled most of the board including Moscow, most of ME, Spain, still had Paris and Italy and it turns out the victory conditions are so ill thought out that you have to play until 1947 for a stalemate. Wish you more fun with the tournament then the enjoyment I am having... Hi YohanTM2 Sorry to hear this, although glad it was fun too for a while. The Victory Conditions for this game have been pretty much the same ever since SC1 was released in 2002, so they are probably overdue a fresh look. With that in mind I am looking at introducing an alternative set of Victory Conditions, but the concept will need to be tested out and that will be part of the testing for the new project currently getting started. If they work in that then I will do something similar for this game too... so it may be a few months, but watch this space. That said, there are already in this game three Decision Events where the Allies can offer to surrender if certain conditions have been met, and it would be good to get feedback on them too. Do Axis players use those to drive their strategy in competitive games? If not, is there a reason? DE 303 - USA: Offer To Surrender? Event fires: When the USA is Allied but France, the USSR and Egypt have surrendered, and there are no Allied units within 6 hexes of Paris or Nantes. DE 310 - USA: Offer To Surrender? Event fires: When the USA is Allied but France and the USSR have surrendered and London is in Axis hands, and there are no Allied units within 6 hexes of Paris or Nantes. DE 417 - USSR: Offer to Surrender? Event fires: When the USSR is Allied but Moscow, Stalingrad and Leningrad are in Axis hands, France has surrendered, and there are no Allied units within 6 hexes of Paris or Nantes. Thanks Bill

LLv34Mika -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/19/2018 6:42:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: YohanTM2 Good morning, I concede to BPINisBACK and withdraw from the tournament (and am finished with SC3). There have been many discussions about the flaws in this game (although it has been a fun time waster). The nail in the coffin for me is the ridiculous victory conditions. For the first time I played a game into 1945 (yes, first time in all the years the game has been out). I controlled most of the board including Moscow, most of ME, Spain, still had Paris and Italy and it turns out the victory conditions are so ill thought out that you have to play until 1947 for a stalemate. Wish you more fun with the tournament then the enjoyment I am having... Hi Yohan, may I ask what else you would expect? I am a bit surprised because actually THAT is the funniest part of the game if you ask me. The Axis control the first half of the game... maybe a bit more. If you can gain enough power, produce units, research and weaken GB and the USSR the Allies won't be able to harm you anymore. I've seen it in many games. But if you fail or face a very strong Player playing the Allies you still have a chance to win. If you own Paris, Warsaw, Berlin, Rome and Moscow it doesn't matter how strong the Allies are or how many troops Ivan could throw at you. I've seen it in one of my games. I was by far stronger but couldn't get a foot on European soil in the West and in the East I was too far away from Moscow to make it in time. It was sure that I would win the war in the long run... but not until 1947. Btw, it happened because my opponent could not take London but instead he went for the Russian oil fields, stopped the imports via Murmansk/Archangelsk and via Iran and pushed back the Russians so far that it took ages to rebuild the Red Army. And even tough I was able to push forward slowly my Russians missed the MPPs to rebuild lost units fast enough. And the German Luftwaffe was too strong (and experienced) to make progress fast enough. I lost units, especially air units or HQs all the time. I could still advance but only to the point of the next defensive line where the same happened again. I lost time, more time and even more time until it was too late. That was the hard lesson... but on the other hand that feels fair to me because the allies do the same in the first years (buying time). Just my opinion... I only want to offer a different view. As you can see the same happened to me but I would rather call it a feature than a bug. Even tough I would even add Baku to the German deceisive victory conditions. I hope you stay for a few more games. If not I still wish you all the best in other games and maybe we meet in a few years. Mika

BPINisBACK -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/20/2018 7:45:58 AM)
Hi people, Thank you very much to Yohan beacuse this great game. He was very close to win many times. Stalingrad and Cairo were only three exes from the enemy forces... Even in the latest 43 if you could move all your luftwaffe to France... WA would be off or, at least, they won't be able to launch a strong CA as they did in the beggining of 44. Anyway. As i said: if we change the game conditions for victory, the people will play differently. After some many years with the Axis heading the game, Allies can't win in one year (Sugar, you are an alien, don't listen this [:D][:D]). My way of playing with allies (most of the times) is looking for a very late victory. I love try to change the war againts a very strong Axis player. That's because i dig deeply around Stalingrad, i attack Scandinavia or such other long term strategies. But, thinking about the tournament, i also agree that, like in this case, Yohan must have some points because he delayed his defeat after the historical date. I think you are having this subject into account actually. -- Moving back to the tournament. I will be able to start a new game from next Sunday. Anyone wants to play me? Any side, i don't matter. Thanks!

Ktonos -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/20/2018 8:18:06 AM)
Hey BPIN. Congrats, your victory vs Yohan seems very similar with the one u pulled vs me. I would be in for a game, as allies preferably - I have 2 tourney games ongoing both as axis

BPINisBACK -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/20/2018 8:53:12 AM)
Hi, Ktonos! Yes, it's true. I find easier (talking about the Russian's) to defend in the south-east (From Caucasus to Stalingrad) than in other areas. And, with WA i try to make different things, but in my latest games i am going for Scandinavia. But... who know in the future. I will send you the password for our next game. Thank's for the offer. But take notice that i can't start until next Sunday!

Markiss -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (9/20/2018 2:26:30 PM)
I am up for a beating if anyone wants to fatten up their score. Full disclosure, I am an SC1 player from the old Battlefront days, and am getting back into the game after a long break. I have spent the last couple months reading the manual, beating up the AI [>:], and catching up on the forums to educate myself on the latest multiplayer strategies. So, I am not totally ignorant, just mostly so. I'm not ready for Sugar, but hopefully I can give a medium level player a decent game, and learn something in the process. I am a little unsure about the mechanics of the PBEM system, but I found a good post by Taxman on the subject, and will use it as a guide. If you play me, don't be upset if I PM you a stupid question about PBEM procedure, I don't ask the same stupid question twice. I will gladly play either side.

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