T1 hasty attack question (Full Version)

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xalinas2 -> T1 hasty attack question (9/16/2018 9:33:43 PM)

Hi all,

could someone explain me what I am doing wrong?

Classical T1 situation, I am trying to take Riga with a hasty attack with two PDs. Unfortunately attack fails, but I dont worry so much as both PDs have 1 MP left. Unfortunately I cannot follow up with another hasty attack, I simply dont get the icon to commence the attack.

I attach the respective screenshot, I am attacking from directly east, so 1 MP should be sufficient, shouldnt it? Am I missing something obvious?

Many thanks for your input...

[image]local://upfiles/55807/023A637C458C44B997264F972E741315.jpg[/image]




EwaldvonKleist -> RE: T1 hasty attack question (9/16/2018 9:39:03 PM)

There is a new rule introduced under 1.11.02 that adds +1MP cost for each attack if you attack a hex repeatedly.

On T1 there are small changes to that rule, but it explains what you see here. In short, you only have two shots at taking Riga with your approach unlike 4 as before.




xalinas2 -> RE: T1 hasty attack question (9/16/2018 9:47:38 PM)

Argh, now I remember having read about it, but have not played in a while...

Okay, bad luck, time to move on...

Many thanks for the explanation though...




EwaldvonKleist -> RE: T1 hasty attack question (9/16/2018 9:50:56 PM)

Seing you have 1MP the attack failed two times. Consider putting Manstein in charge of the attack if you haven't already done it, and don't be greedy with support units, with infantry type ones to be prefered over AFVs.
Of course, dices can still fall bad.




xalinas2 -> RE: T1 hasty attack question (9/16/2018 10:11:15 PM)

Strange, I am pretty sure, I had two MPs before the attack and used both PDs in one single (hasty) attack...
Never mind, I just pressed the complete button, will reconsider the next time...

It was actually the first time in ages that the Riga assault failed, usually it went quite okay. Main "problem" was a good dice roll/multiplier for the soviets, while the prepatory bombing was actually below expectations...

Manstein might be an option, but I like to use most of my T1 APs in the south where I really need the rolls in my experience. On the other hand, Model could probably wait for a turn, dont use I Corps much anyhow on T1.

Thx for your input, much appreciated!

Best regards
X




Aufklaerungs -> RE: T1 hasty attack question (9/16/2018 11:27:52 PM)

I think if you're trying to take an urban hex like Riga with panzer divisions only, your CV takes a horrific penalty on top of it already being halved for the hasty attack. His 13 defense CV also receives a super-sized bonus because you don't have any infantry divs supporting tour tanks.

You can attach pioneer support if your 41 or 56 corps have engineer battalions in support. Make sure your corps HQ is within five hexes of the attack if you need corps support units like artillery and more engineers.




Saulust -> RE: T1 hasty attack question (9/17/2018 4:39:39 AM)

Um, Xalinas2 why didn't you have the 2 Panzer Divisions of XLI Pz Korps arrive at the Clear Hex X58, Y34 next to Riga to the cost of 46 MP with 4 MP left remaining? [&:]

4 MP minus 1 HA point cost equals 3 MP enough for another go, unless you have already conducted a second hasty attack which might explain why they appear to be worn down with only 31 CV together on your screen shot.

That said I actually try to only use the 6th Pz Division in a hasty attack alone even after I use it in a single hasty attack along its approach rout against the 28th Tank Division in the hex NE of Siauliai beforehand and still usually succeed. So with 2 MP remaining it occupies the Port city of Riga itself, to prevent the 22nd RD from moving back into it as it usually retreats over to the west bank of the Dvina if it doesn't route, but then I don't know exactly might revive from routed stacks in Tukums & Jelgava nearby enough to may be move into it, though probably not, but best to be sure! [;)]

IME if the first HA fails you can still fail a second HA attempt with heavy CV reduction, but then that only used to happen a long time ago before I new to assign Pioneer SU Battalions, wipe out the Soviet Airforce completely in the area, move General Reinhardts XLI Pz HQ to within 5 hex command range and unlike you I don't, repeat don't [:-] prep-bomb the 22nd NKVD Rifle Division which won't inflict much real damage to it or reduce fort by much but might increase its combat experience & or morale and thereby its defensive CV while the pioneers should reduce the fort bonus enough anyway.

Also I place SS Totenkopf in Mansteins LVI Pz Korps, because IIRC it gains more CV and importantly doesn't reduce slightly the CV of the Divisions of Reinhardts XLI Pz Korps as it would when placed in 41st. [8D]




Saulust -> RE: T1 hasty attack question (9/17/2018 5:48:59 AM)

OK I've just play tested a bit with a Riga attack and while I can get there with 4 MP remaining if I only HA with 6th PzD first only, usually it fails, if I then use it on its own again it also fails miserably, then thirdly I use the 1st PzD on it own HA against 22nd NKVD RD and it also usually fails, but while it only cost it 2 of its MP to conduct its own HA I can't get it to launch another HA even though it has 2 MP left to use so the requirement must have gone up to above 2 MP for the fourth HA in this instance with the second Pz Division.

Hmmm, must have been a while since I've done it with just the 6th PzD on its own 'usually' successfully, but I've been playing mostly the Soviets for a long while now and there were malaises added against PzD attacking into city hex that nerfed a single 6th PzD HA upon 22 RD in Riga on it own on the first turn a long while back, but so judging from this now it looks like one needs both XLI Pz Divs on T1 to ensure success regularly.

I'll still use a PzD (or may be 2) against the 28th Tank Div all the same!

So I'll stand self-corrected now in my earlier post above about using only the 6th on it own, but even in my few tests I don't see a combined CV of only 31, usually more that twice that amount! [X(]




xalinas2 -> RE: T1 hasty attack question (9/17/2018 7:59:31 AM)

Many thanks for the input everyone,I might actually have another look at my current approach because I only get to the hex east of Riga with 2MP, and that is without attacks on the way...

Other main takeaways:
- don't bother with prep-bombing, not worth it due to minimal losses/disruptions and possible Soviet so gain
- improve SU allocation (I might have attached some stugs/AA in addition to the mandatory Pioneers, let's see whether I can get some more)
-consider leader change (even though Reinhard is decent iirc but don't know the details/T1 leader allocation on top of my head)

I hear that some more experienced people propose to attack with only one PD initially but I am not really convinced and my experience is in line with what Saulust describes above (maybe I am just doing it wrong).




Saulust -> RE: T1 hasty attack question (9/17/2018 8:29:07 AM)

XXXXI Panzer Korps optimum approach rout is between the two little rivers between (or rather through) the juncture of the 12th & 3rd Mech Corps then right turn at Siauliai while knocking out the 28th Tank Div which they can assist with and then a left after the last little river, the Lielupe next to where you have the Mot Inf Div by the looks of your screenie, so the only river the 2 Pz Divs do is across the Dvina.

By the sounds of it Xylinas2 you are taking them on the wide right hook over the Dubysa River through the undefended towns passed the Nevezis River, say hello to my father's home city along the way thank you! [8|]

Handy hint is that you don't need to take out one of the two near front Tank Divisions, however since the 2nd TD is on the best Rail path I prefer to do that one as a priority and drive through where the 202 MID is, rather than knocking out the 23 TD and driving through the 9th A-T Bgd position, but clear these with my Infantry first of course, but either way up to Siauliai in a NE direction will work for 46 MP next to Riga.

Actually remembering some mid time ago at the most I will use each PzD in a HA on the 28th Tank Div only once, arriving at 47 MP, do a combined HA with both PzDs then move 1st into Riga and 6th back into the SE clear crossing hex with Rienhardts XLI Pz Korps HQ sitting there at zero MP, otherwise that pesky 22nd NKVD RD might move next to it if it only retreated westside which it usually does IME and could bump it on Soviet turn.




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