SImilarities with Command Ops 2? (Full Version)

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joeyeti -> SImilarities with Command Ops 2? (10/18/2018 9:22:49 AM)

Hey folks,

I was wondering, for folks who play both Command Ops 2 and Armored Brigade - on first look these games look quite similar in how they approach the terrain, movemenent/pathing, they are both realtime/pausable etc.

Do they "feel" like distant cousins therefore?



Veitikka -> RE: SImilarities with Command Ops 2? (10/18/2018 11:42:33 PM)

I played the older iterations of Command Ops and yes, they do have some similarities. However, in Command Ops you control much larger units. In Armored Brigade you have companies, platoons, sections and individual vehicles/squads/teams. From what I remember, the units in Command Ops were quite abstracted, whereas in AB you can zoom in and count the individual men, see the vehicle commanders etc.



wodin -> RE: SImilarities with Command Ops 2? (10/18/2018 11:45:21 PM)

Honestly...very little as the scale is different.


From preview though I love CO this is way more fun



Veitikka -> RE: SImilarities with Command Ops 2? (10/18/2018 11:50:46 PM)

Also, one similarity is that in these games you need to plan ahead. Otherwise the command delay will punish you. These games are not about quick reflexes, even if they have real-time engines.



Searry -> RE: SImilarities with Command Ops 2? (10/19/2018 3:50:25 AM)

I hope they are not. Command Ops 2 feels very arcane and odd.
This game looks much more coherent to me.



budd -> RE: SImilarities with Command Ops 2? (10/19/2018 5:39:15 AM)

Question on the command delay. Will units act with self preservation,not just stand and get slaughtered while waiting for new orders when they get caught in a bad position? Seek cover, hit the deck, ect.



Veitikka -> RE: SImilarities with Command Ops 2? (10/19/2018 8:12:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: budd

Question on the command delay. Will units act with self preservation,not just stand and get slaughtered while waiting for new orders when they get caught in a bad position? Seek cover, hit the deck, ect.


The units can retreat, pop smoke, escape DPICM strikes etc. It's possible to micromanage units, but this increases the command delay.

It's important to understand that ideally the game should be played by commanding full formations. This is how the AI opponent plays the game. The individual units don't improvise much, because you can have company formations that have even 24 units. If every unit had the freedom to improvise, for example change positions or adjust movement paths on their own, it would slow down formation movement when they wait for other units to reorganize between waypoints.



Werezak -> RE: SImilarities with Command Ops 2? (10/21/2018 6:36:36 PM)

That makes sense for vehicles but I can see it being very painful to watch infantry that come under fire not run to a nearby building or stand of trees, etc. It's not something that you can pre-plan, and manually telling infantry squads to do this isn't the right approach.

Perhaps you can make an exception for infantry under fire, and have their formations automatically set to "free" when it triggers?



Rosseau -> RE: SImilarities with Command Ops 2? (10/21/2018 6:46:36 PM)

Well, I hope there are some options on the Command Delays, as CO2 has.



Veitikka -> RE: SImilarities with Command Ops 2? (10/21/2018 9:06:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dholedays

That makes sense for vehicles but I can see it being very painful to watch infantry that come under fire not run to a nearby building or stand of trees, etc. It's not something that you can pre-plan, and manually telling infantry squads to do this isn't the right approach.

Perhaps you can make an exception for infantry under fire, and have their formations automatically set to "free" when it triggers?


Perhaps it can be made a SOP option (subject to the command delay) after the release. However, it's not always that obvious if the infantry unit should start moving under fire or not. The player may have intentionally placed the unit to the location, for example to ambush the enemy, and if he forgets to set the option correctly then there may be unwanted results. It can take forever for a squad to advance 60 meters (two map cells) under fire, and while they move they have higher chances to get killed.

The more there are micromanagement options the more the human player can have advantages over the AI opponent.

Just bringing up some aspects that must be considered. What we currently have is that when the situation is very tough, or the morale level is low, the infantry unit retreats and may pop smoke if there are enemies in sight. I think Steel Panthers had it like this.



Veitikka -> RE: SImilarities with Command Ops 2? (10/21/2018 9:08:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rosseau

Well, I hope there are some options on the Command Delays, as CO2 has.


The faction command delays can be modded.



Werezak -> RE: SImilarities with Command Ops 2? (10/22/2018 12:25:05 AM)

Right, that makes sense. Well if it ever does happen, I think as an SOP option would be the way to go, and it would be best if it was something the AI was able to use as well.

Perhaps there could be cover search range options, like:

1) hold position (no move to cover)
2) move only if the cover is in a cell right next to the unit (30m)
3) move only if the cover is 2 or less cells away (60m)

You're right that 60 meters is a long way to move, especially under fire, so on second thought maybe even (3) could be dropped. It might be useful in some situation but at that point it's just a micromanagement option like you said and doesn't really benefit the game much.

On the other hand I think it would benefit both the AI and players if (2) was a default, but then maybe that's just me. When the AI or player moves an infantry company into a city (for example) it is very likely that some squads will be next to a building and then they will go inside (instead of having to manually break units off the company just to get them in buildings). Otherwise it would be not much different from how it is now.

But I understand your hesitation so maybe it would be better to revisit the idea after release when myself and others have been playing the game for a bit.



jreynol2 -> RE: SImilarities with Command Ops 2? (10/23/2018 4:28:36 PM)

I'm a little concerned about hearing some of this, as I want more micromanagement in my war games, not less. (Or course, this is just me).

Command Ops 2's high level, coupled with command delay, coupled with limited individual unit control, made me feel like the game was more or less playing itself.

I don't really like that feeling, after the first turn I have very little real control over much more than broad strokes. To me, it makes the game fairly boring and it's hard for me to stay engaged with it.

Is that this game? (please say it isn't so [:)])



nikolas93TS -> RE: SImilarities with Command Ops 2? (10/23/2018 7:25:58 PM)

You can micromanage as much as you want, but there is a longer command delay involved (which is logical as you go further down the command chain).

I tend to use formations more, and micromanage only when strictly necessary, or when playing infantry scenarios etc.



Werezak -> RE: SImilarities with Command Ops 2? (10/23/2018 11:48:10 PM)

Different perspective I guess. I like to be able to develop a plan and watch as my forces execute it without having to get involved with boring details that the units should already know how to do on their own.

Speaking of which... would it be possible to implement a mode where the player can observe the AI playing both sides? If anything it would make it easier to give feedback on the performance of the AI.



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