RE: TOAW XML Editor (Full Version)

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76mm -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (4/27/2019 2:44:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244
If the editor you're creating will allow users to set the AP value as part of equipment editing, you may wish to cue them about scaling factors (8X, 2X) depending on the kind of equipment they're editing. I don't know of a way to directly enter the in-game scaled-down versions of those ratings.

Currently I don't plan to add an equipment editor, for two reasons:
1) as far as I can tell, the in-game equipment editor (and maybe some of the previous third party efforts) seems to work pretty well (other than the issues you've described), and at least to me, the GUI is not as obtuse as some of the other in-game editors; and
2) but more importantly, the effects and interactions of all of the various values and factors do not seem to be especially well-documented or widely understood, and I don't want to create a tool to edit something if we don't really understand what we're editing.

Given all the work you've done on Anti-Shipping values (and the obvious utility of doing so), I am going to try to get that in as "read only" data, but first I want to make sure that that values would be correctly and consistently displayed regardless of how the data was entered. Given that we are working with *.gam files, which are processed by the game before being exported, I'm hoping that this is the case, but will want to check it before adding...

Same issue with the various other combat and movement values that Steve mentioned previously.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (4/27/2019 2:54:37 PM)

quote:

Are you advocating removing triggers as a way of activating events?

No, those aren't Trigger Items, those are Sort Items.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (4/27/2019 2:57:01 PM)

quote:

I currently don't understand your point at all.

If you rearrange the events, this is a bad thing. You are saying that it has no effect on event arrangement, so then it does not matter.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (4/27/2019 3:06:01 PM)

quote:

The scenario I'm working with has 350 events

I suggest that you need a text file for scenario events. With such a file you can keep a list of all the events plus comments and explanations as to what you did or are trying to do. This may seem like a waste of time when you are doing the initial design work, but a couple months down the road all of that will most likely go out of your head and you will be in a pickle if you want to change something or make an adjustment. I keep such an event file for every scenario that I do, no matter if they have 20 events or 3000 events, and even for some of the mods because they are so complicated and who knows what the original designer was thinking. If sorting helps you or others then fine, but I'm suggesting that you really need something a little more detailed.



76mm -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (4/27/2019 3:07:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
If you rearrange the events, this is a bad thing. You are saying that it has no effect on event arrangement, so then it does not matter.

Yes, the filtering happens in-memory and is not saved to disk. And I'm not including the ability to change Event IDs or move them around.

While I'm sure that there will be lots of complications ahead, hopefully this won't be one of them!



76mm -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (4/27/2019 3:13:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
If sorting helps you or others then fine, but I'm suggesting that you really need something a little more detailed.
I'm sure it will help me, although I certainly see the utility a print out at various stages during the process. Currently I'm focusing on the GUI and internal logic, but hope/plan to add an Event exporter (similar to the in-game function) at some point.



Zovs -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (4/30/2019 7:31:05 PM)

So far (still in the early process of learning this fantastic tool) but I have not yet seen a way to add new equipment via this tool. I can easily open up a *.gam file and edit it notepad/vscode so not sure if I am doing something wrong or not.

No worries in any event.

So for example with using a notepad editor I can easily add to an exiting unit like so:

Original data point: 
<EQUIPMENT ID="20" NAME="Truck" NUMBER="60" MAX="60" DAMAGE="0"/>


Modified data point: 

<EQUIPMENT ID="19" NAME="150mm Howitzer" NUMBER="18" MAX="18" DAMAGE="0"/>
<EQUIPMENT ID="20" NAME="Truck" NUMBER="60" MAX="60" DAMAGE="0"/>


To add in the Howitzer, but I was thinking we could do this in the GUI of the TOAWXML Editor, but it does not seem so unless I am missing something.



76mm -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/1/2019 9:13:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs
...but I have not yet seen a way to add new equipment via this tool. .

I haven't released the version that allows you to do this yet. It is basically finished, but I want to check a couple of things before I release it...hope to do so in the coming days...



Zovs -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/1/2019 10:21:33 PM)

Very cool!

One request. In the unit view would it be possible to show the date after you input s turn number for reinforcement?



Lobster -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/1/2019 11:05:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

The scenario I'm working with has 350 events

I suggest that you need a text file for scenario events. With such a file you can keep a list of all the events plus comments and explanations as to what you did or are trying to do. This may seem like a waste of time when you are doing the initial design work, but a couple months down the road all of that will most likely go out of your head and you will be in a pickle if you want to change something or make an adjustment. I keep such an event file for every scenario that I do, no matter if they have 20 events or 3000 events, and even for some of the mods because they are so complicated and who knows what the original designer was thinking. If sorting helps you or others then fine, but I'm suggesting that you really need something a little more detailed.


What is needed is a flow chart.



76mm -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/2/2019 2:31:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs
In the unit view would it be possible to show the date after you input s turn number for reinforcement?

In theory, yes. In practice, not sure...I think the coding would be kind of fiddly but nothing too complicated, but I am running out of real estate on the screen. I will put this on the list and take a look.



76mm -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/2/2019 2:35:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
What is needed is a flow chart.

This is what I was trying to achieve with the "causal chain," which would list event numbers...

My understanding of a flow chart would be the same, but with graphics. This would certainly be much more complicated to code--what exactly do you have in mind, and how would it be better than simply listing events?



Lobster -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/2/2019 3:05:57 AM)

I was referring to what I do to make a chain of events. I make a flow chart. I think that would be beyond the scope of your tool. It would be a huge pain in the butt to code since it's a graphical representation of events and there's already free programs on the net that can be used by people. Sorry, didn't mean that you should make it part of yours.



Zovs -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/2/2019 3:17:23 AM)

Thanks 76mm



sPzAbt653 -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/2/2019 5:47:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs
In the unit view would it be possible to show the date after you input s turn number for reinforcement?

In theory, yes. In practice, not sure...I think the coding would be kind of fiddly but nothing too complicated, but I am running out of real estate on the screen. I will put this on the list and take a look.

At the bottom of the box, could you put an 'info bar' that would show some stuff when it is moused over? TOAW's editor actually does this in many areas. In a worse case, is there the ability to add mouse-overs for some stuff? I don't particularly like the floating mouse-overs as they tend to cover other stuff on screen and become annoying.



76mm -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/2/2019 1:28:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
At the bottom of the box, could you put an 'info bar' that would show some stuff when it is moused over? TOAW's editor actually does this in many areas.

Definitely possible, although I can't say that I like the info bar approach very much, personally I find the info very easy to overlook. But let me know what specific you have in mind and I can take a look. The main issue is that I'd like to have a consistent approach to presenting information, rather than tool tips on some forms, info bars on others, etc. But I'm always willing to consider new approaches.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
In a worse case, is there the ability to add mouse-overs for some stuff? I don't particularly like the floating mouse-overs as they tend to cover other stuff on screen and become annoying.

I'd be happy to add mouse-overs for more stuff; you've probably seen that I've added some tooltips for many of the force variables explaining the settings, etc.,. let me know if these pop up too quickly, stay up too long, etc., I should be able to tweak those settings, I think they are on the defaults now, whatever those are...

Let me know specifically what you have in mind--what is obvious it you is probably not so obvious to me...again, willing to consider various approaches although ultimately I want a consistent look/operation.

The main thing is that there is a standard Windows control for something, and there are such standard controls for both info bars and tool tips.



Zovs -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/2/2019 2:41:50 PM)

So this is a very basic idea of how it may look and what I was hoping I could see (the date for when a turn is used):

[img]https://i.imgur.com/xEYsMfF.png[/img]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/2/2019 2:55:50 PM)

quote:

although I can't say that I like the info bar approach very much, personally I find the info very easy to overlook.

It's true I know, I just think that an Info Bar is a cleaner look than the floating Tool Tips. As far as what to put there and when, I think it requires use of the program to determine what the user needs to know at first, plus what can be of constant use.
So the thing we see below is that by mousing over 'Turn: 142', we get to see that is March 6th, 1944. We always need that, although TOAW often has too much info [a hangover from the days when computer games were beginning]. It's obviously a Button and we all know we can click it so no need to say that. 'Set Deployment or Mission' is the type of thing that could be helpful to new users.


[image]local://upfiles/24850/D41EF684BD474E89A3478E7981E8AF2F.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/2/2019 2:58:55 PM)

Here is the Info Bar from another game. It uses the entire bottom of the screen so has more than you would ever need, but it shows a lot more than can be reasonable for a tool tip. Plus, if you want or need to know something you can glance to the Bar, whereas with a tool tip it becomes annoying over time. Again though, that is my opinion.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/C2E0AB5321664ECA8A40F30999FFD537.jpg[/image]



Zovs -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/2/2019 4:24:17 PM)

Steve that approach would also work, i.e. if the select a unit it shows the Entry turn [142]: March 6th, 1944 etc...



Zovs -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/2/2019 9:02:17 PM)

So after I dump the scenario particulars into XML if I manipulate it in a text editor, when I see things like this I am thinking I can deleted them? Or should I leave them as it makes no impact? 

<PLACE ID="64" loc="38,78" name=" " />


I have a few where I moved text (while in the editor) and or deleted text.



Zovs -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/2/2019 9:06:17 PM)

Also, I converted this scenario from TOAW III to IV and I am seeing stuff like this: 

NAME="Sturmgeschütz III41"


Is this normal? Any ideas?



76mm -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/2/2019 9:28:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs
<PLACE ID="64" loc="38,78" name=" " />

Those are place names. I think you can either delete them (in a text editor), leave them, or insert a place name, as you wish.



76mm -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/2/2019 9:31:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs
Also, I converted this scenario from TOAW III to IV and I am seeing stuff like this: 
NAME="Sturmgeschütz III41"

Is this normal? Any ideas?

Don't know if it is "normal", but it is certainly common. I think something changed with game fonts somewhere along the line, leaving gibberish like that. I would just replace it with what you want.

Similarly, some of the text in older scenarios seems to be made of up invalid XML characters, which would crash TOAWxml, so now upon loading the program tests for these characters and replaces them with a "Z" if it finds them (you'll get a message if this happens). I posted about this a couple pages back in this thread.



Zovs -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/2/2019 9:46:35 PM)

Ok thanks 76mm (What’s your real name, mine is Don, I think call signs is silly).

Your tool is fantastic, it has greatly increased my productivity, I would have left my designs in the trash bin of history if not for this one tool.

I am a programmer by trade and I know XML. Been using Notepad++, bit going to switch to VSCode.

Man if you can get the event editor in I’ll be set.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/2/2019 10:40:23 PM)

quote:

I think something changed with game fonts somewhere along the line, leaving gibberish like that.

Somebody didn't like the lightening bolt type runes for the SS, so they disabled the use of special characters. That included things like umlauts and the weird looking o's a's and e's, etc. Now when the program opens it replaces all of them with the gibberish.
Somebody may come in and say that the SS runes are illegal, but they aren't. How it's different from typing SS is beyond me. There it is - SS - see if I get arrested ! [:)]



Zovs -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/3/2019 12:51:58 AM)

Runes and such is not illegal for historical purposes. War games are for historical purposes and therefore it's good to go.



Lobster -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/3/2019 1:33:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

I think something changed with game fonts somewhere along the line, leaving gibberish like that.

Somebody didn't like the lightening bolt type runes for the SS, so they disabled the use of special characters. That included things like umlauts and the weird looking o's a's and e's, etc. Now when the program opens it replaces all of them with the gibberish.
Somebody may come in and say that the SS runes are illegal, but they aren't. How it's different from typing SS is beyond me. There it is - SS - see if I get arrested ! [:)]


Watch out for the black helos. [X(]



76mm -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/3/2019 1:46:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs
Ok thanks 76mm (What’s your real name, mine is Don, I think call signs is silly).

Tom. But don't be offended if I keep calling you Zovs, honestly I can't keep all the names straight, although I'll try my best...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs
Your tool is fantastic, it has greatly increased my productivity, I would have left my designs in the trash bin of history if not for this one tool.

Glad you like it...hopefully I'll have time to use it as well once I'm finished creating it!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs
I am a programmer by trade and I know XML. Been using Notepad++, bit going to switch to VSCode.

Interesting...you know any C# :-)? Why the move to VSCode? I'm generally pretty happy with Notepad++ but don't know any better...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zovs
Man if you can get the event editor in I’ll be set.

Working on it. Depending on how hard it will be, I might create a functional event editor, then come back and tweak the GUI, or if it looks hard, might tweak the GUI first then come back to it.



Zovs -> RE: TOAW XML Editor (5/3/2019 1:59:58 AM)

Thanks Tom!

VSCode is a powerful yet easy to use editor, it has a ton of features and extensions that can be added for just about everything. Plus I have been using it for work for that last four years so I am familiar with it.

Yes, I know the basics of C#, I am essentially a Java programmer by trade. The two languages are somewhat similar.



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