Have WitP, should I buy WitP:AE? (Full Version)

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Tinstaafl -> Have WitP, should I buy WitP:AE? (11/24/2018 2:24:11 AM)

I have played the old Pacific War and I have enjoyed it a lot. Then quite a few years ago I've got WitP, but never had time to really play it, just played a bit with it instead.

I think, that I vaguely remember having some problems with Imperial aircraft squadrons, which AI was decimating, by sending them constantly to attack airfields on which there was less planes left, than the losses I was suffering from defending them AA batteries and just from run and wear. Which is one of the reasons for which I have delayed till now the task of finally forcing US to sign the Chicago Peace Treaty.

Well, I think, I will shortly dedicate some serious time to finally get this task done. Unfortunately, though proper for a player taking Japanese side, my resources are far from unlimited. Buying WitP:AE simply means, that until my next anniversary coupon another game will have to be dropped from my cart.

I do not care much about graphics, music and other non-essential stuff, but I care a lot about AI implemented by my own units executing orders and opponent's AI, as well as about general gameplay mechanics. So, before I spend again a lot of time in Pacific, should I buy Admiral's Edition, or happily stay with what I already have?

Also, any comments about Reluctant Admiral mod, which would certainly push me toward Admiral's Edition, but comes with the warning "this Mod is getting to be more and more difficult for the AI to handle. Is best with head-to-head PBEM"?



Anachro -> RE: Have WitP, should I buy WitP:AE? (11/24/2018 2:37:51 AM)

Yes, get the game. AE is a big, BIG improvement over Witp. That said, for AI games you are always going to run into the limitations of the scripting and while I believe Andymac has done some improvements on it over the years, its still scripting with variations, not a neural network that can adapt and learn. The AI is no replacement for a human opponent and can easily be gamed without putting in house rules that limit yourself.

As for mods like Reluctant Admiral, many of them are made by players who'd rather spend time on developing the mod than AI scripting that works with the mod. You can try playing such mods with AI, but it will be...wonky. Mods are meant to be played against human players in PBEM.

I recommend you get AE and play a PBEM.



Yaab -> RE: Have WitP, should I buy WitP:AE? (11/24/2018 4:51:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tinstaafl

I have played the old Pacific War and I have enjoyed it a lot. Then quite a few years ago I've got WitP, but never had time to really play it, just played a bit with it instead.

I think, that I vaguely remember having some problems with Imperial aircraft squadrons, which AI was decimating, by sending them constantly to attack airfields on which there was less planes left, than the losses I was suffering from defending them AA batteries and just from run and wear. Which is one of the reasons for which I have delayed till now the task of finally forcing US to sign the Chicago Peace Treaty.

Well, I think, I will shortly dedicate some serious time to finally get this task done. Unfortunately, though proper for a player taking Japanese side, my resources are far from unlimited. Buying WitP:AE simply means, that until my next anniversary coupon another game will have to be dropped from my cart.

I do not care much about graphics, music and other non-essential stuff, but I care a lot about AI implemented by my own units executing orders and opponent's AI, as well as about general gameplay mechanics. So, before I spend again a lot of time in Pacific, should I buy Admiral's Edition, or happily stay with what I already have?

Also, any comments about Reluctant Admiral mod, which would certainly push me toward Admiral's Edition, but comes with the warning "this Mod is getting to be more and more difficult for the AI to handle. Is best with head-to-head PBEM"?



In WITP:AE , you CANNOT put your units/theaters under AI orders (you can only select automatic operations for your subs). You will be in manual control of all your units.

The AI is a bunch of scripts. It is not dynamic, and may use a rigid script even if a situation calls for a more dynamic order ajdustment. If you play against AI like you do against a human opponent, you will decimate the AI. If you put some house-rules on yourself, the AI will be a decent sparring partner.



rustysi -> RE: Have WitP, should I buy WitP:AE? (11/25/2018 6:00:54 PM)

To begin with, this game has little in common with WitP. Its a whole new game for the most part. Some things will look the same or similar, but that's pretty much where it ends.

The game is great, but is not for the faint of heart. It is a huge time suck. One member called it a 'time vampire'. There're no real shortcuts here, you have to invest in the game to get the most out of it. OTOH you will get a bang for your buck, based on the amount of game play you will enjoy. I've only spent so much time with one other game that I can think of, and that was Third Reich back in the day. And I've spent no where near as much time with it as this one.

I do recommend the game, but you must realize the game doesn't have a learning curve, its a learning cliff. I'm not sure you'd be interested to know how much time I've invested in this beast.

So if you like detail and micromanaging its for you. If not, nothing to see here.

Right now you do get the bonus of the game being on sale.



Dili -> RE: Have WitP, should I buy WitP:AE? (11/26/2018 12:04:56 AM)

I think saying this is mostly new game is an exaggeration, most of it work same way. There are differences but they don't affect most the gameplay.
If you have time go for it. Or even if you don't but are happy playing the small scenarios. I think it is a very worthwhile improvement.

For example now the surface/submarine forces can intercept another TF in middle of a TF movement. In WITP naval interceptions only occurred in the hex the TF ended up in night phase and day phase, not in those other hexes it moved even if both US and JAP TF's were in same hex.



PetrOs -> RE: Have WitP, should I buy WitP:AE? (11/26/2018 7:33:11 AM)

I got the AE on the day it was released. I am still playing it, had several dozen games vs AI, and in my second PBEM now. It is a huge improvement over Uncommon Valor, Witp and War Plan Orange. Much looks similar, but detail work is different, you have much more things which you could do right, or which could go wrong, too ;)

I am now making Reluctant admiral vs AI as Jap, and its fun. Scripts for AI were regularily updated over time, so make sure you get them. There is a thread with links here on the forum.
Also, install all updates on game, and also latest Beta. More nice features and lots of stability came in.




AcePylut -> RE: Have WitP, should I buy WitP:AE? (11/26/2018 12:04:10 PM)

DO you have a wife?
Do you have a girlfriend?
Do you have kids?
Do you have a life?

If you answer "yes" to any of these, then the best answer is probably "no". :)



LeeChard -> RE: Have WitP, should I buy WitP:AE? (11/27/2018 9:22:36 AM)

AE is my life! [:'(]



Yaab -> RE: Have WitP, should I buy WitP:AE? (11/27/2018 1:10:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tinstaafl

Also, any comments about Reluctant Admiral mod, which would certainly push me toward Admiral's Edition, but comes with the warning "this Mod is getting to be more and more difficult for the AI to handle. Is best with head-to-head PBEM"?


Cannot comment of Reluctant Admiral mod, but he game itself should have shipped with a warning that the game is getting "more and more difficult for the humans to handle."

And for the first turn in grand campaign, picture Jack Nicholson yelling

- YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TURN!!!



Dili -> RE: Have WitP, should I buy WitP:AE? (11/27/2018 2:15:01 PM)

I actually think WITP-AE is easier than WITP



Tinstaafl -> RE: Have WitP, should I buy WitP:AE? (12/10/2018 10:41:45 PM)

Thank you for all the answers. My 12 Year Anniversary Reward has just arrived, so it's time to make the final choices. This year WitP:AE will definitely be one of the chosen :)



Anachro -> RE: Have WitP, should I buy WitP:AE? (12/10/2018 10:42:29 PM)

And it's on sale too for only $30!



rustysi -> RE: Have WitP, should I buy WitP:AE? (12/11/2018 8:04:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tinstaafl

Thank you for all the answers. My 12 Year Anniversary Reward has just arrived, so it's time to make the final choices. This year WitP:AE will definitely be one of the chosen :)


And another one gone, another one gone, another one bites the dust.[:D]



Barb -> RE: Have WitP, should I buy WitP:AE? (12/12/2018 7:07:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tinstaafl

Thank you for all the answers. My 12 Year Anniversary Reward has just arrived, so it's time to make the final choices. This year WitP:AE will definitely be one of the chosen :)


And another one gone, another one gone, another one bites the dust.[:D]



Tinstaafl: Actually buying any game other than WITP:AE could prove to be just waste of the money, as you probably wont be playing them in any meaningful quantity once you start on WITP:AE [:D]



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