The Next War 1979 - a shout out! (Full Version)

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mussey -> The Next War 1979 - a shout out! (11/27/2018 1:27:07 PM)

After tinkering a bit with Tutorial Korea, and Overlord '44 I have settled into The Next War 1979 scenario.

I am loving this game! It was adapted to TOAW by Bob Cross from the original SPI game by the team of Dunnigan, Herman, and Simonsen 1978. In my college days, I spent countless hours playing this board game as the the early years of the 1980's Cold War raged in Europe.

TOAW depicts the style of this game's land warfare of combined movement/battle/movement very well. It introduced the concept of 'Breakthrough Zones' - markers that were placed on hexes as a result of combat, and added movement points to it and the six surrounding hexes.

The original board game spanned x3 maps with several smaller ones that ranged from the northern tip of Denmark to northern Italy, and from eastern Low Lands to Western Poland/Czech./Hungary. Game scale is 14 km/hex and 2-day turns. The air war and naval war are games in themselves. The set-up, as with all monster games, took several hours to sort and place the 2,400 counters, and a table large enough to fit the maps, charts, instructions, and players' aids.

Using 15 km hexes and 3.5 day game turns, Bob Cross combined all this into a splendid TOAW adaptation that really depicts the flavor and essence of this game. I highly recommend this scenario to anyone that is ready for the hypothetical battlefield of Cold War Europe.



[image]local://upfiles/23116/30F4FF2B67F440C68E45141414C351BA.jpg[/image]



Colinwhittaker -> RE: The Next War 1979 - a shout out! (1/4/2019 8:44:03 AM)

There is a huge flaw with this game, which I also played and enjoyed, and that is the 1 (BR) Corps orbat is appalling incorrect. This is the problem with a lot of the other modern scenarios in TOAW. The problem is caused by the fact that during 1978 and 1984 the UK reorganized to fight as 4 not three armoured divisions as task forces, and then back to 3 armoured divisions and one inf division. The issue is that the orbat of the Corps evolved gradually over that period. In the orbats for these games they ended up including all the new and the old formations, hence double counting some units and therefore inflating the size of British Army!



mdanz -> RE: The Next War 1979 - a shout out! (1/4/2019 1:41:00 PM)

That is interesting..
perhaps you have a "historically top on" TO&E to back up your argument? If you do then that's pretty easy for you to fix.

I was an Avalon Hill man myself back in the day but, whatever....
I want to try it



Rosseau -> RE: The Next War 1979 - a shout out! (1/6/2019 4:04:44 AM)

Have you checked the OOBs that Armored Brigade is using? Maybe I could send some type of file if you don't have the game.

Mussey, what do you think about no snow West Side of Cleve-Land going on four years? It almost makes me believe in climate change. Where did you find the M110, or is that picture from in-country?




mussey -> RE: The Next War 1979 - a shout out! (1/6/2019 11:26:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Colinwhittaker

There is a huge flaw with this game, which I also played and enjoyed, and that is the 1 (BR) Corps orbat is appalling incorrect. This is the problem with a lot of the other modern scenarios in TOAW. The problem is caused by the fact that during 1978 and 1984 the UK reorganized to fight as 4 not three armoured divisions as task forces, and then back to 3 armoured divisions and one inf division. The issue is that the orbat of the Corps evolved gradually over that period. In the orbats for these games they ended up including all the new and the old formations, hence double counting some units and therefore inflating the size of British Army!


Thanks for this observation. I have found many inconsistencies on both Forces for the 1979 time period.

The problem is that there is no definitive OOB for 1979 and thus we are reduced to conjecture. A huge source of info is Michael Holm's website "Soviet Armed Forces 1941-1991" http://www.ww2.dk/new/newindex.htm which greatly improved the Warsaw Pact OOB (I used 1980). I added Air Defense Armies and corrected unit designations for many units. It even gives actual equipment types for air units for specific air units. A declassified National Intelligence Estimate (NIE 1979) also sheds light on WP OOB. For example, it stresses that many, if not all front line Soviet Mot Rifle Divs had an extra tank battalion. Interesting.

Beyond NATO naval units, I have yet to scrutinize its OOB for 1979. If anyone has good sources for this, please let me know!



mussey -> RE: The Next War 1979 - a shout out! (1/6/2019 11:37:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rosseau

Have you checked the OOBs that Armored Brigade is using? Maybe I could send some type of file if you don't have the game.

Mussey, what do you think about no snow West Side of Cleve-Land going on four years? It almost makes me believe in climate change. Where did you find the M110, or is that picture from in-country?




The grasslands are greener, the skies are clear and blue. Children play without worry of Jack Frost nipping. But the cold winds of war is in the air. Warsaw Pact forces are preparing for their final dance with destiny. The Orcs of Mordor are about to be unleashed. Who amongst us can stop them? it's 1979...

[M-110 is stock photo. I was 13B in the 3/92 FA Bn, then Howitzer Btry/107 Arm Cav. Long time ago...]



cathar1244 -> RE: The Next War 1979 - a shout out! (1/6/2019 3:42:00 PM)

One idea for an event. There was serious civil unrest in Poland from 1981 forward. I doubt it emerged from nowhere [as in the underlying factors were probably already active in 1979] ... you may wish to have a probability of Polish armed forces not being available using the event editor.

Nice work on expanding the map. I recall the original board game; it had an interesting movement-combat system.

Cheers



Colinwhittaker -> RE: The Next War 1979 - a shout out! (1/7/2019 4:13:49 PM)

If you would like to share your .gam file I am happy to have a go at editing it for you



mussey -> RE: The Next War 1979 - a shout out! (1/9/2019 10:53:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cathar1244

One idea for an event. There was serious civil unrest in Poland from 1981 forward. I doubt it emerged from nowhere [as in the underlying factors were probably already active in 1979] ... you may wish to have a probability of Polish armed forces not being available using the event editor.

Nice work on expanding the map. I recall the original board game; it had an interesting movement-combat system.

Cheers


Yes, it already has this event as well as events for the possible non participation of the East European countries.

Since I added Norway into the game I may need to add one for them. As I understand it, though Norway was part of NATO they deliberately did not allow other alliance forces on soil so as not to escalate tensions with USSR. In advent of hostilities, they would formally request NATO help. Some argue that this arrangement is problematic...

At present, this scenario has nearly 500 events. Including the above, other major events are the participation levels of France and Italy, the surrendering of other members, and the Battle of the Atlantic (which effects the arrival of NATO reinforcements). Monstrosity.



mussey -> RE: The Next War 1979 - a shout out! (1/9/2019 10:58:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rosseau

Have you checked the OOBs that Armored Brigade is using? Maybe I could send some type of file if you don't have the game.



I’m reluctant to use other scenario or bats, opting for original sources (if possible). If you have or anyone else have good sources, please pass them on to me. As of now there are conflicting informations that need to be balanced.



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