Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (Full Version)

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Jorm -> Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (12/20/2018 11:52:08 PM)

Hi

This scenario is based on the historical forces available for Operation Trikora. It is plated as the Dutch using historical forces available, I set this up for my own interest but it turned out to be a little me fun than i first thought it would be, as i expected a overwhelming win by Indonesia. so others may enjoy it. Historically the dutch gave up western new Guinea to the Indonesians, so this scenario explores the 'what if' they had decided to contest the Indonesian claims in the region. I have included 8 avengers on Biak as they were on the CV when in transfered the Hunters to Biak, and i can find nothing to say they could not have been deployed.

as always all feedback ,good or bad, and any suggestions to improve are most welcome
Cheers



Ancalagon451 -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (12/21/2018 11:28:36 PM)

Im a little confused by the briefing here. For a moment I thought I was going to play with the the Indonesian side, since a complete listing of forces and targets are given for them while, on the other hand, the Netherland orders amount to a fuzzy "stop the Indonesian Landing and do not let them sink our carrier" and not a single word it's given about their ORBAT and unit capabilities (and since we are talking about Netherland armed forces in the sixties, I'm faily sure than most players will need a little "that unit makes this thing" info.

Also some specific tasking would be apreciated, even if the overall strategy can be resumed in "stop the Indonesian landing" some details about how to do it are useful tips to players unfamiliar with the conflict (and this is a VERY unfamiliar one to most people).

On the bright side a scenario different from USA vs USSR/Russia/PRC/North Korea/beefed third world ****hole is a fresh air breeze here.
Even if there are some very good ones, sometimes I want something different like this.

Tomorrow I will give it a try, and tell you how it goes.

Ancalagon



Jorm -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (12/22/2018 12:28:04 AM)

hi Ancalagon

Thanks for the very helpful feedback
I'll add some details into the side brief and a OOB for the Dutch

I agree it was interesting to try something other than cold war USA v USSR etc, especially as this is based on a real world event that not many people would be very aware of.

cheers



Andrea G -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (12/22/2018 12:52:08 PM)

Most interesting situation, I will give it a try right away [:)]



WW31987Blog -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (12/22/2018 7:22:34 PM)

Looks like this will be my post-Christmas scenario to dive into once all the family and friends have left. This looks quite interesting! [:)]



Andrea G -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (12/23/2018 10:43:47 AM)

Done a session yesterday, the complexity is high, a lot of decisions to take, limited assets.

I would suggest putting a couple of Avengers at Biak Airbase in ASW loadout.

SPOILER ALERT


The Komars arriving from the south edge didn't fire their Stix at the Dutch Frigates even when they were fired upon, maybe you have to set their WR differently.



Ancalagon451 -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (12/23/2018 2:38:25 PM)

quote:

The Komars arriving from the south edge didn't fire their Stix


Curious, in my own play they fired missiles aplenty before I shot any shell at them. Of course they blew all my frigates to pieces.

The omission of them in the briefing it's a deliberate one? If so, good move. They are much mote deadly than any heavy cruiser.

Also Andrea, did you have any success hitting the minesweepers with the 500lb bombs and the rockets of the Hunters? Mine have been utterly unable to hit any ship with anything other than strafing guns and, before anyone ask, both bombs and rockets where fired at minimum altitude.

Ancalagon



Andrea G -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (12/24/2018 4:09:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ancalagon451

quote:

The Komars arriving from the south edge didn't fire their Stix


Curious, in my own play they fired missiles aplenty before I shot any shell at them. Of course they blew all my frigates to pieces.

The omission of them in the briefing it's a deliberate one? If so, good move. They are much mote deadly than any heavy cruiser.

Also Andrea, did you have any success hitting the minesweepers with the 500lb bombs and the rockets of the Hunters? Mine have been utterly unable to hit any ship with anything other than strafing guns and, before anyone ask, both bombs and rockets where fired at minimum altitude.

Ancalagon


My Hunters are still in the A2A loadouts, but I striked the northern task force with the Sea Hawks loaded with iron bombs failing to score any hit on two occasions.
The Hunters are changing loadout to iron bombs to strike in force the northern task force, will tell if I have any luck with them.



Ancalagon451 -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (12/24/2018 4:48:26 PM)

OK, it's been a busy weekend, and only today I finally had time to end the play I started on Friday.

Veredict: Messy but very fun. Never played in this geografical zone before and it showed. Also there was a little of culture shock technology wise since I'm usually a more advanced eras player, but in the end that added to the fun (as in Dwarf Fortress Fun, google it if you don't get it).

Now some technical issues observed:

The biggest one: While the Komar missile boats fired their Styx missiles just fine, they where for the most part the only ones. Any other Indonesian ship refused stubbornly to return fire against my ships while they where shelling them with impunity.

This conduct achieved scenario breaking levels when the escorts of the main landing group (the one bound to Biak) refused to fire against F804 Kortenaen.

Launched on a suidice run after the airstrikes againt the amphibs resulted to be mostly innefective (damn english and american bombs and their 200m CEP, the russians FAB have 50m CEP!!!) instead she fired with impunity until literally running out of munition (including 40mm and torpedoes) and, after that, disengaged without even a scratch. Sinking in the meantime half of the landing and escort ships and basically giving me the scenario.

The cruiser Irian (with I supponse Is the one you misnamed Kirov in the Briefing) and the rest of her group did the same and where unceremoniously sunk by the carrier escorts shelling.

If not for the Komar's missiles sinking three frigates, a pair of LCSs sunk by Badgers, and a pair of lost subs; I wouldn't have suffered any naval casualities.

To be comprehensive, against air and sub-surface contacts they fired just fine, I lost a truckload of planes due to naval flak fire, and one of the subs due to ASW Mortar salvos.

Another minor Issues: The HDML patrol boats bound to Sorong don't wait for the minesweepers to do their work, and they arrive to their target heavily damaged (not that it mattered much since they also didn't fire).

The two patrolling Badgers fired their missiles against the first detected contacs with happened to be two of my LTSs, basically wasting their missiles.

The 8 Dakotas in Laha have no assigned mission.

Carrier strike Badgers didn't launch even after the carrier escorts where positive identified, they where detached and acting as a SAG against the main landing group but they are mission targets on their own so they should have been engaged.

Indonesian paratroops have no mission assigned, so after teleport they do nothing. I only discovered they existence while checking what remained in editor mode after the endgame.

There is no scoring at all, and while this scenario doesn't need a "units destroyed scores/loses points" type of scoring, a simple one based on the overall invasion success like "score points downing transport planes/sinking land ships, lose points for landing ships arriving to the coast, lose LOTS of points for paratroopers arriving to the towns and bases" would be an excellent fit.

That's all what comes to mind right now. Even with that it's been a very funny ride along with a refreshing change of scenario.

Hope any of this helps you, and thanks for your work.

Ancalagon



Jorm -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (12/24/2018 6:33:43 PM)

Hey thanks for the comprehensive feedback, very much appreciated, you helped spot a few problems.

I think some of the missions Weapons release authorities may have set to TIGHT as part o the primary mission, i 'll check and play through before posting an update. Not sure ehy other groups are not firing, in all my play throughs the patrol craft and HDML all fire no problems. i'll recheck.

The HDML patrols are meant to run through the narrow channel 'south' of the mine field, some times the path finding does take them upthroughte mine fields, one way to fix it is to change the game/map resolution in the setup, ill look at it.


You picked up on a major play point i meant to put a player MESSAGE in for and that was the possibility that the badgers *may* hit the wrong target, so its more a scenario thing than them wasting missiles. i.e. the chance the player gets a small reprieve rather than getting a missile into the CV in the first few minutes of the scenario. The russian crews on the Badgers are fallible like a human player, it was known at the time they were very probably crewed by russian 'advisors'.

I missed the paratroop mission, ill add one in.

I had put in some Indonesian aircraft as place holders and didnt end up using, but i should enable to second paradrop. I though the play was already pretty hectic for the dutch player, but i guess thats what modern conflict is all about, lots of hard asset/mission management decisions

The crusier Irian was a Sverdlov, i had mistakenly called i ta Slava :-(, good pick up.

good one and thanks for giving this a go, i actually though no one would be interested in such an obscure piece of history.
cheers




Andrea G -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (12/29/2018 12:50:27 PM)

I left this scenario halfway because of lack of time, glad to see that Ancalagon finished it so that you can update it.
Like it very much, the historical setting is one of the few I never heard about, and the hardware is most interesting.
I look ahead to the updated version to replay it.



Randomizer -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (1/5/2019 2:29:40 PM)

Interesting situation! Nothing major to add to the above but suggest that you clear the message log and reset the scenario start time.

-C



Andrea G -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (1/29/2019 12:41:18 PM)

Any update on this one?
Would love to play it again



Lionheart -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (2/5/2019 11:56:22 AM)

This was an enjoyable experience and I particularly liked the use of platforms which are rarely modelled. Looking forward to the next revision.



Ancalagon451 -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (2/5/2019 12:16:04 PM)

Just out of curiosity, did the Indonesian ships fire aganinst you?

And also, did you manage to score any hit on a ship the the issued rockets and iron bombs?

Ancalagon



Lionheart -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (2/5/2019 3:11:47 PM)

Ancalagon,

The Indonesian ships did indeed initiate ASuW gunfire engagements outside Sorong.

I did score some direct hits on ships with iron bombs and unguided rockets but these were extremely rare (ZUNI's being the exception), against patrol boat sized vessels I was relying on cannon fire and very near misses.

Dutch Infantry patrols encountered and dispatched a couple of static Indonesian paratroop formations.

Didn't see any sign of the Badgers.

The score was '0' although I'm calling it a player win as the Indonesian naval forces were halted some way from their destination after being repeatedly attacked from the air.

Lionheart




Ancalagon451 -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (2/5/2019 6:11:25 PM)

OK thanks, wanted to know if the Indonesians not returning gunfire was a fluke of my play or not.

Ancalagon



Patmanaut -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (6/22/2019 3:56:45 PM)

Hi:

I'm really interested into playing this scenario but a pop-up message showed up telling me "This scenario requires the following features: Aircraft Damage Model" that unlocks only if I buy a license for Chain of Wars.



Ancalagon451 -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (6/22/2019 9:37:13 PM)

What the message says, you need the "Chains of War" or the "Shifting Sands" campaignt DLC for the license to employ paywalled features, in this case, the Aircraft Damage Model.

If you have neither you can't play this one nor any other that makes use of said features.

You can try PM Jorn for a version without ADM, but I haven't seen him in the forum for a while so I don't know if he'll answer.

Ancalagon



Patmanaut -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (6/25/2019 10:17:27 PM)

Understood.
IŽll be adding one of those campaigns next weekend.
Thank you.



Ancalagon451 -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (6/25/2019 10:34:17 PM)

If you have no preferences in the content between those two, buy Chains of War.

It has the licenses for all the pay features, while Shifting Sands only has some of them.

Ancalagon



Whicker -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (6/30/2019 2:10:56 AM)

Interesting scenario, nice work.

The indo surface groups need Engage Opportunities: Yes - or else they won't fire - unless they are on a ASuW naval mission. I was right in the middle of them and they were not shooting back, changed that setting and they wiped my little 2 ship formation out pretty quick. Some of the patrol boats were on a ASuW mission but not many.

Would be nice to have scoring, not sure what a victory would be without it.

I think this would work well with cargo missions doing the actual drops, but it can be a bit of work to set up.

the PC 580 Hui is not the right image, looks like it should be one from here:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/010580.htm



Andrea G -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (6/30/2019 9:09:43 AM)

+1 Whicker

Where is Jorm?



Jorm -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (7/12/2019 8:17:18 AM)

hi Whicker /Andrea G

ive been away for awhile

thanks for the feedback :-)

I'll try to fix the indonesian SAG engagment issue, i'll need to have a few more play throughs to polish this scenario.
I doubt i'll add scoring as i find using the editor to do this far too tedious.
There were still a few issues for me to work on and had not got back to it.


cheers
J



Whicker -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (7/12/2019 3:24:44 PM)

you can do scoring in one lua action for each side, it can be as simple or complex as you want - you could just put something in the top part for ships and AC just to keep track and maybe have some threshold of what victory would be:

https://commandops.github.io/posts/lua-scoring-example/

quote:


-- blue unit destroyed example, would need same thing more or less for other side with points not negative
local side = "Blue"
local currentScore = ScenEdit_GetScore(side)
local points = 0 --default
local unit = ScenEdit_UnitX()

if unit.type == "Weapon" then
return --exit if destroyed unit is really a weapon
end

if -- initial score setup, defaults
unit.type == "Aircraft" then points = -10
elseif
unit.type == "Ship" then points = -50
elseif
unit.type == "Submarine" then points = -50
elseif
unit.type == "Facility" then points = -5
end

if unit.name == "Air Force 1" then points = -1000 --example for specific unit
end

if string.match(unit.classname, "F%-15") then points = -17 --example for specific class of unit
end

currentScore = currentScore + points
print(unit.name.. " ("..UnitX().classname.." Sub Type: "..unit.subtype.." ) Destroyed - Points: "..points)
ScenEdit_SetScore(side, currentScore, unit.name.. " ("..unit.classname.." Sub Type: "..unit.subtype.." ) Destroyed - Points: "..points)




Andrea G -> RE: Scenario Operation Trikora 1962 Indonesia v Netherlands (7/13/2019 11:59:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorm

hi Whicker /Andrea G

ive been away for awhile

thanks for the feedback :-)

I'll try to fix the indonesian SAG engagment issue, i'll need to have a few more play throughs to polish this scenario.
I doubt i'll add scoring as i find using the editor to do this far too tedious.
There were still a few issues for me to work on and had not got back to it.


cheers
J



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