Modelling large land formations in scenario (Full Version)

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B52H -> Modelling large land formations in scenario (1/3/2019 3:23:40 AM)

How exactly would one model land formations larger than a battalion in Command without a huge performance decrease? I've been trying to mess around with this for a while, but even modelling a single large division gives the game a massive slowdown in performance when placing individual land units. Does anyone have any tips regarding modelling large formations?

B52H



SeaQueen -> RE: Modelling large land formations in scenario (1/3/2019 10:01:37 AM)

In order to help you, I need to understand what you're trying to achieve. Why are you building a division level formation? What question is the scenario you're building examining? Typically, in the modern era, divisions are not maneuvering elements.



B52H -> RE: Modelling large land formations in scenario (1/3/2019 1:58:38 PM)

I'm working on a few scenarios at the moment set in the Cold War, but the main ones in question involve massive formations of troops, at least starting on the battalion level. The scenarios in question involves an invasion of West Germany and Austria by the WP. In this case, division-level formations are applicable, at least on the WP side.



tjhkkr -> RE: Modelling large land formations in scenario (1/3/2019 2:11:08 PM)

I have been trying to do the same with a version of the Tet/Khe Sanh.
I am not thinking there is an EASY way to do it... especially when you start getting down to logistical elements that keep units fighting. I have it easier than you because the NVA/VC was not as technically sophisticated as anything in Europe.
One other thing: they database people have said that the ground units are not modeled well yet.
You may have to limit your self and choose either to model logistical elements or combat elements.
The database people did provide APP Place Holders for company and battalion level units, but I am only NOW beginning to work with them... and more to it, I am not sure with '0' damage points if it is of any help.
Let me know your own thoughts about this, because I am looking at the same problem.



SeaQueen -> RE: Modelling large land formations in scenario (1/3/2019 2:44:49 PM)

Command is a tactical level simulation. A Soviet division is an operational level command. Therefore, the best way in Command to handle a large unit like a Warsaw Pact division, would be to create multiple subordinate units which maneuver independently. For example, consider a Soviet tank division in 1991. It consists of:

Division HQ
1x Motor Rifle Regiment (BMP)
3x Tank Regiment
1x Artillery Regiment
1x SAM Regiment
1x SSM Battalion
1x Recon Battalion
1x Engineer Battalion
1x Signal Battalion
1x Material Support Battalion
1x Maintenance Battalion
1x Chemical Protection Battalion
1x Medical Battalion
1x Artillery Command Battery
1x Helicopter Squadron
Misc Support Elements

That's a lot of stuff! The first thing I'd do is eliminate everything which falls beyond the scope of Command. Really, Command does one thing well, the kill chain, and everything not involved in that is irrelevant or a target only to be added in for a specific scenario. That means the misc support elements go immediately. The Artillery Command Battery might be a target in a scenario, but unless I plan on it being attacked, I can leave it out. The medical battalion is basically just a target in the context of Command. Leave that out. The Chemical Protection Battalion is similarly irrelevant. By the time they're decontaminating stuff, the scenario is over. The signal battalion might provide targets in a specific scenario but in general is irrelevant.

The helicopter squadron will probably be important. The Engineer battalion might be important in a scenario involving breaching or crossing an obstacle. The recon battalion will be important. That would be the first thing to contact the enemy. The SSM battalion will be important. Command does ballistic missiles well. The SAM regiment will be important. Command does aircraft well. The artillery regiment is important. That will most likely be a group of it's on (Divisional Artillery Group or DAG). Each of the tank regiments will be important (obvi!) as will the motor rifle regiments.

The basic maneuver element of the Soviet Army in 1991 was a Motor Rifle Regiment (MRR) or tank regiment (TR). For a tank division then, you need to focus on building those out, then add in the other division level supporting units. Each regiment will have 3 groups, each one representing a subordinate battalion. Repeat the process over and over again, and you'll have a whole tank division, which you can maneuver in a realistic way.



Gunner98 -> RE: Modelling large land formations in scenario (1/3/2019 5:26:37 PM)

I've done large formations before but really for one reason - make the player target them before they get too close. Battalion and Brigade size is manageable, but only the combat elements.

Command is not a land tactical simulation, so it does not model land units using terrain well, at all really. Nor does it handle fire and movement or mutual support or any real land combat tactics. Its not supposed to.

One way of handling the movement of large formation is to not use units - use messages, lua effects - bridges captured, move Divisional SAM units forward in stages, etc.

If you look at 'Don of a new Era' the bridges that show up close to Moldova near the end of the scenario represent the advance of several divisions of Russians. This causes a problem for the player because of the SAMs that go with thm.

In the latest scenario I threw into the testing forum, there are a couple Turkish Bdes in play. They are triggered to move against a Sov landing as a reaction force: If the player has done a good job they are found and largely destroyed before that happens. If he has not, M60s vs light infantry will teach him to look harder.

Caribbean Fury #1 also has two Cuban Bdes moving on Guantanamo, it is good because it puts pressure on when the player needs his air units elsewhere.

Northern Fury #36 has the better part of a Sov Division advancing on a Bde in the defence, its all about the deep battle, putting the A-10s and AH-64s to good use. I'm really not convinced that this one works well though.

The fundamental question you need to think about is the one SeaQueen asked eilier. What are you trying to achieve, and why? I would add - how will this addition impact the player? If it dosn't than why bother, different games/sims do a better job because thats what they are designed for.

You could use the generic markers (MRD & MRR I think) put them on a non targetable side and move them, by Lua I would suggest, to represent the movment of the front line.

Its a tricky thing but its probably better to find another way to portray the land combat to the player unless it is germain to what you expect the player to do.

B




tjhkkr -> RE: Modelling large land formations in scenario (1/4/2019 9:30:21 PM)

You could use the generic markers (MRD & MRR I think) put them on a non targetable side and move them, by Lua I would suggest, to represent the movment of the front line.
What a FANTASTIC IDEA!
Thank you!



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