British units speed (Full Version)

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StuartG -> British units speed (2/2/2019 10:17:38 AM)

Hi fellas. First off, I would like to say this is an excellent game, and im enjoying it a great deal. So please, take this as constructive criticism and not bitching. Which as those who know me on tanknet perhaps could be forgiven for thinking. :)

I think the speed of a few British units is slightly off. The Chieftain is actually modelled the same speed for all versions, when the Mk5 I think had an upgrade so it can go 27mph. The earlier version could manage 25.3 mph max. Ive tried this in the database and for the pre mk5's its 11.310 metres per second, and 2.636 in reverse. For the post Mk5 (and I think including the Stillbrews surprisingly) its 11.861 and 2.731. In fairness, the Mk5 and the Mk11 manual both say that there can be up to 10 percent variablity in speed, but those are the book figures from the Mk5 and Mk11 manuals.

The Scorpion family is 80KMH, which gives 22.22 metres per second. Im not sure what the reverse is, Ive got a sneaky suspicion it should be able to go as fast forwards as back. Ill have to check that. Thats from the Scorpion and Spartan manual.

FV432 is 52.3kmh, which gives me 14.529. Reverse is unaltered. I should add that was the Mk1 manual, Ill have to check if its substantively different for the Mk2.

Hope this is of interest, I may have something on Chieftain and Challenger 1 turret traverse if I can find it in the original manuals if its any use.

Keep up the good work on a great game.






nikolas93TS -> RE: British units speed (2/3/2019 1:29:17 PM)

Hi Stuart! I am so glad to see you here!

Any correction is welcome, although it is great if you can provide more detail on sources so I can put that to my notes. Scans of relevant parts are always welcome.

Also, there is also a rule of thumb for reverse speed: if there is no rear driver, I usually tent to make reverse speed slightly slower (as to simulate commander being the guide to essentially blind driver) even if torque converter or transmission allow for maximum speed in reverse.



StuartG -> RE: British units speed (2/3/2019 6:30:25 PM)

Yeah, sorry. That would be the Chieftain MK3 to Mk5 user manual, and the Mk9 to Mk11 user manual. The FV432 Mk1 user manual, and the Scorpion family user manual. The Chieftain data is partly supported by the Haynes Chieftain book, but they say a Mk5 can reverse at 9MPH, but I can find no evidence of that. I think it must be a typo.

Ill be working tomorrow, but Ill try and get it scanned for you

Yes, that makes perfect sense. Its pretty nippy backwards even at 60kmh to be honest.





StuartG -> RE: British units speed (2/4/2019 3:25:59 PM)

Ok, this is the early one. Its one of those they put in updates to the manual for 4 years, so its difficult to be certain which one they are talking about. As you can see on the page though it refers to Mk1 and Mk2, and I think this is the one this data refers to, even though the name on the manual is Mk5.



[image]local://upfiles/56117/5497DEAB69674BD0B47A6CA9ADE49408.jpg[/image]



StuartG -> RE: British units speed (2/4/2019 3:27:42 PM)

This is clearly marked Mk5 to Mk11.





[image]local://upfiles/56117/D999C294F9C841A082911BA157768C57.jpg[/image]



StuartG -> RE: British units speed (2/4/2019 3:30:33 PM)

This is probably more useful, again Mk11.



[image]local://upfiles/56117/52432F0C45CC484AA3F2640C4FF07AA3.jpg[/image]



StuartG -> RE: British units speed (2/4/2019 3:37:08 PM)

And I figured this might be useful, it suggests that the first Chieftain to have got OE (L23) rounds would have been /4 vehicles, which would be equivalent of Mark5/4. Im not quite sure what they did to bring them up to Mk9, id have to check.



[image]local://upfiles/56117/460EBE9444D94704A4F21E8F759442D8.jpg[/image]



StuartG -> RE: British units speed (2/4/2019 3:43:53 PM)

And this is FV432 Mk1. I think the Mk2 was different mainly in internal stowage so they could fit it out as a radio. As they made only 54 Mk1's, im unsure how respresentive this is of the entire family. Ive a suspicion I might have a Mk2 manual somewhere, Ill have a check.

Thats all for today, ill do Scorpion and Centurion tomorrow. Apologies for the large size of the scans, I cant seem to get Gimp to work on this one. Will try and sort that tomorrow. Hope any of this helps you.



[image]local://upfiles/56117/B0462B862516452C81805478D5047633.jpg[/image]



StuartG -> RE: British units speed (2/5/2019 3:21:38 PM)

This is Spartan.



[image]local://upfiles/56117/099C200BA4D944A6830DDA308EB27495.jpg[/image]



StuartG -> RE: British units speed (2/5/2019 3:25:46 PM)

For Scorpion and Scimitar it starts to get a bit awkward, because 2 different manuals show 75kmh and 86kmh! Im not quite sure why. Its not the longer hull of spartan, because Samson is logged at 75. It may be a result of a de tuning effort to increase reliability, or the 75kmh limit is purely arbitrary because they were chewing the road up.




[image]local://upfiles/56117/D9A091FBCE9042D9911A9C13A2A3FA00.jpg[/image]



StuartG -> RE: British units speed (2/5/2019 3:27:30 PM)

Here is the other page from the same manual.

As always, if there is anything you are looking for, please message me and Ill see if I can look it out. I sometimes hold onto stuff I dont know I have.



[image]local://upfiles/56117/DFEC8067F0FF4CBAB68DA5065105FBB0.jpg[/image]



StuartG -> RE: British units speed (2/7/2019 3:27:33 PM)

I hope that is a bit easier to read.

There is also this, a few years back I made notes on vehicles that had been observed in GSFG and noted in USMLM reports. It obviously doesnt say when a machine came into service, but its probably a good guide to when they showed up in East Germany. As your game is clearly based upon battles in Germany, I thought it might be helpful to tie down when exactly various equipment should be come available.



nikolas93TS -> RE: British units speed (2/7/2019 7:15:55 PM)

Thanks mate, this is pure gold! I will analyse it more into detail as soon as get some spare time, maybe I will have some questions.

Also, I tend not to bound equipment by theaters. That is why you have T-64s and T-72 available earlier than they appeared in GSFG units (but they were operational in USSR Western Military units, albeit that is also reflected with purchase availability or engine reliability criteria) or various Patton versions that were not in active USAEUR units but were slatted for REFORGER, stored or otherwise used elsewhere than in Europe.



StuartG -> RE: British units speed (2/8/2019 7:54:48 AM)

Absolutely no problem, im glad if its of help.

Yeah I can understand that. That said, I figured if you couldnt narrow down the entry of equipment into service closer than a year, then perhaps this might give some indication when it was showing up in force. Quite often (though clearly not always) if something was important, it tended to up in GSFG first.

If nothing else though, they remain an interesting read, and if you want to get your hands on them to look at yourself, Ill try and find them online for you. I find you can probably download them still via archive.org to revive old web pages.



nikolas93TS -> RE: British units speed (2/8/2019 10:22:56 AM)

What is very interesting are reports for NVA as well, it is worth comparing.



StuartG -> RE: British units speed (2/8/2019 4:15:37 PM)

Yeah there are some interesting insights that come up reading mission accounts. I remember reading in one book about a Brixmis officer that seemed to photograph the handover of SA10's to the East German Forces. Most books will not tell you that happened, and as it happens the East Germans only had them a few months before the regime collapses, and the Soviets took them back in a hurry.

Here is a site that seems to host all the surviving USMLM reports. Well worth downloading and reading on a kindle or something.
http://www.coldwarspies.com/reading_room/usmlm_histories/



nikolas93TS -> RE: British units speed (5/30/2019 11:19:30 PM)

Speeds has been adjusted, although I have kept max allowed speed from manual for Scorpion and Scimitar. This minor change will be in the next patch.



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