Admiral Nakhimov vs literally eveything the US Navy has (Full Version)

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Ekaton -> Admiral Nakhimov vs literally eveything the US Navy has (2/13/2019 12:49:48 AM)

I did some extensive testing today, mainly to see how US Navy ships would fare against the new Admiral Nakhimov refit. For the purposes of the test each group was allotted two helicopters to detect the enemy ships. Detection happened at roughly the same time (Russians were usually faster, several seconds faster on the same proficiency setting). In some tests I used a full salvo of Nakhimov immediately, in others more realistic smaller salvos that won't use the entire ship's magazine worth of missiles at once. The results were identical no matter the method, US Navy ships will eventually be overwhelmed and use all their SAMs.

1 Arleigh Burke vs Nakhimov - no damage to Nakhimov, Arleigh Burke sunk
2 Arleigh Burkes vs Nakhimov - no damage to Nakhimov, Arleigh Burkes sunk
3 Arleigh Burkes vs Nakhimov - no damage to Nakhimov, Arleigh Burkes sunk
1 Arleigh Burke and US Navy CG vs Nakhimov - no damage to Nakhimov, Arleigh Burke and the CG sunk
3 Arleigh Burkes and US Navy CG vs Nakhimov - no damage to Nakhimov, Arleigh Burkes and the CG sunk

Zumwalts failed to damage Nakhimov too, except for that futuristic Zumwalt that managed to give Nakhimov around 3% worth of damage.

Interestingly, in most of these tests Nakhimov failed to destroy American helicopters while in all of them Russians lost theirs.

The cancelled hypothetical modern futuristic US Navy cruiser managed to survive but failed to sink Nakhimov. Nakhimov completely failed to locate it properly and its missiles were flying in a very wrong direction. Part of that I guess is that Nakhimov quickly lost its helicopters.


It seems like the only way to defeat this behemoth would be to use planes or land-based rockets. I wonder, how do you tackle this ship? Is there any real world plan for doing so?



Primarchx -> RE: Admiral Nakhimov vs literally eveything the US Navy has (2/13/2019 1:42:38 AM)

Best way to defeat it is to hope they keep the hatches open while it's in dry dock. [;)]

What can you say? It's a beast on paper for sure, a true capital ship. Great offensive capability, both missiles and guns. Great defensive capability, both SAMs and CIWS. You need a gigantic offensive punch to break it. Or one submarine, I suppose.




Gunner98 -> RE: Admiral Nakhimov vs literally eveything the US Navy has (2/13/2019 7:18:28 AM)

Interesting. These have always been a problem, even before the refit. Just on tonnage alone it equals 3 Burks. I think that the Kirov class probably had something to do with the decision to refurbish the Iowa class in the 80's but even a ship that size couldn't do much without the armament.

I think the best way to defeat it would be asymetricaly; stay out of its range and take it out with subs and aircraft, not an easy task but has more chance of success.

Thanks for doing that test.



Cik -> RE: Admiral Nakhimov vs literally eveything the US Navy has (2/13/2019 9:53:50 PM)

the real measure of it is going to be how much airpower it can resist, i think. how long can it stay out of port while being capable of defending itself and what sort of sustainment can it receive/protect in the field?

are we expecting that it's going to somehow catch a burke? is it fast enough to sprint over a large distance and pin a surface group and then shoot them?

i'll probably take a look at this thing. is it the successor to the nuclear battlecruiser style stuff from the 70s~? it always struck me as a cool concept but dunno if it's ever been feasible.



Tailhook -> RE: Admiral Nakhimov vs literally eveything the US Navy has (2/13/2019 11:17:15 PM)

I imagine the US plan would likely involve submarines, or simply avoiding it. Try testing one of the Arsenal ships against it



templar42 -> RE: Admiral Nakhimov vs literally eveything the US Navy has (2/14/2019 12:22:34 AM)

If she's far out to sea, it's a different matter, but I found just now that if 5 Skjold boats could get to the 100nm launch point of their 40 highly stealthy NSMs, they would easily overwhelm and sink her. I'm surprised, because with the number of guidance radars she has for Grisom and Gauntlet missiles I might have expected her to survive.



Amnectrus -> RE: Admiral Nakhimov vs literally eveything the US Navy has (2/14/2019 11:25:44 PM)

If you used the default loadouts, the Burke will only have 36 short-range SAMs, so not too surprising if it gets overwhelmed. The Tico will have 32 long-range, 48 medium-range, and 24 short-range, and should give a better accounting for itself, but that's still only 104 missiles vs 80 supersonic seaskimmers. If the US ships don't have airborne radar then they'll be limited to starting the engagement at the radar horizon, which is about 30-40 miles, which will only give them about 30 seconds to shoot each incoming missile. It would be interesting to try it with support from an E-2D so it can start engaging from a longer range, and also if the Burke or Tico is fitted out with an air-defense load as presumably they would be if they're anticipating an encounter with the Admiral. Still, quantity is a quality all its own.



Eboreg -> RE: Admiral Nakhimov vs literally eveything the US Navy has (3/15/2019 9:31:49 PM)

I actually once got some friends to run a scenario where a Russian task force centered around a Kirov-class battlecruiser fought against a similar American task force centered around a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier.

The Russians were outright murdered in that scenario.



ARCNA442 -> RE: Admiral Nakhimov vs literally eveything the US Navy has (3/16/2019 5:27:31 AM)

I tested a one on one with Nakhimov and a Flight IIA Burke and, playing the Burke, I found I could fairly reliably get a win - however, I was using customized missile loadouts with lots of SM-6 IA and Multi Mission Tomahawk (but I think that's justifiable since SM-6 is already in service and MMT should be ready before Nakhimov is).

The battle began at 200nm, with both sides using helicopters (3x Ka-27M and 2x MH-60R) flying at max altitude with radars on to find the enemy while the ships operated in EMCON.

I originally tried attacking with SM-6, but that didn't work because CMANO only allows Aegis to have 18 missile in the air at once and because Nakhimov was somehow detecting them with the Mk 1 Eyeball at 30-45nm. Even with these likely unrealistic limitations, I could occasionally get a missile through but it wasn't enough to sink or even cripple Nakhimov.

But when I switched to using MMT, Nakhimov wouldn't detect them until 1-4nm and a salvo of 32 would usually sink her outright (16 only did major damage). Further, MMT outranges SS-N-26 by a huge margin so I could attack without any threat of counterattack. Interestingly, Nakhimov's first warning of incoming missiles was always by ESM, which likely explains why the passive seeker NSM did so well for templar42.



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