Norway radar takedown (Full Version)

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Blast33 -> Norway radar takedown (2/13/2019 11:53:06 AM)

The Russians did a mock attack on a Norwegian radar site in the North with 11 Su-24 Fencers.
The Norwegian intelligencen agency released some radar plots of their routes and attack release distances etc.

This could give you a nice idea on how to make up a baseline scenario to test with.
Via google you can find the whole story. (I was not allowed to post links..?)


[image]local://upfiles/61749/6D8D1AEECB3849F8BE366DE2734E23F4.jpg[/image]



Gunner98 -> RE: Norway radar takedown (2/13/2019 12:26:59 PM)

Thanks for the tip.

In the Northern Fury Scenario #1 H-Hour, the Norwegian radars are one of the early targets. And a major feature in the upcoming book.

B



SeaQueen -> RE: Norway radar takedown (2/13/2019 12:32:20 PM)

It is good data! It gives a good start for a small to medium scenario. It's probably only a part of the picture, though. Where was the Norwegian defensive air, for example? What about Norwegian air defenses? In a hot war, I'd expect more than just Su-24s. Where are their supporting aircraft? Mainstays? Jammers? ELINT? Fighters? Would they coordinate with ballistic missile and cruise missiles? Maybe a submarine armed with LACM? There's so much you could do with this! There's a lot of variety to play with here. I love it.



templar42 -> RE: Norway radar takedown (2/13/2019 2:57:57 PM)

I presume the radars in that particular part of Norway must be intended as a tripwire - surely no one expects them to survive a determined attack on Day 1?



Blast33 -> RE: Norway radar takedown (2/13/2019 4:34:24 PM)

This is how they look like:



SeaQueen -> RE: Norway radar takedown (2/13/2019 7:40:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: templar42
I presume the radars in that particular part of Norway must be intended as a tripwire - surely no one expects them to survive a determined attack on Day 1?


That's sort of the point of a radar, right? To provide a warning. The thing is, in most cases you have more things you'd like to hit than you have things to hit them with. So early on in the war, would the Russians rather hit the Norwegian radars or would they rather hit the Norwegian airbases defending them? I don't know. What to hit first (or simultaneously?) is an operational level decision, more than a tactical one in this case, since I don't believe the Norwegians have any ABM systems. Maybe they have PAC-3? Maybe they feed systems owned by other NATO countries? I don't know. In my Poland airbase defense scenario, I decided that the Russians would attack the Aegis Ashore site in Poland simultaneously with attacking the airbase because it made the overall attack more effective. I'm not sure that'd necessarily be the case here. If Russia launched a bunch of Iskander missiles at a Norwegian airbase for example, how many aircraft could they get up in the air before they struck? They'd only have a few minutes warning.

For Command, though, it'd be fun to make a scenario of either attacking or defending a Norwegian radar site like that, and beg the question, how might one successfully attack such a site? I don't think that package of Su-24s is enough.



Gunner98 -> RE: Norway radar takedown (2/13/2019 8:18:34 PM)

In the 1994 set up I have for Northern Fury, this is a big part of the early hot war story and NF #1 scenario. When I set it up I didn't use Su-24s as they were too valuable for other targets, but used a combination of ground artillery (a couple sites are in range) Scud-D with precision guidance and Mig-27s & Su-17s with dumb bombs. All of the radars are hit near simultaneously in the opening minutes of the fight, in an effort to blind the Norgis and hamper their ability to contest the air and sea space.

Agree that you need jammers, escorts, recon etc, this is not a simple strike. And in the story it dosn't all work either.


It is a very interesting problem but geogrophy does not help the Norwegians.





templar42 -> RE: Norway radar takedown (2/14/2019 12:24:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaQueen

quote:

ORIGINAL: templar42
I presume the radars in that particular part of Norway must be intended as a tripwire - surely no one expects them to survive a determined attack on Day 1?


That's sort of the point of a radar, right? To provide a warning. The thing is, in most cases you have more things you'd like to hit than you have things to hit them with. So early on in the war, would the Russians rather hit the Norwegian radars or would they rather hit the Norwegian airbases defending them? I don't know. What to hit first (or simultaneously?) is an operational level decision, more than a tactical one in this case, since I don't believe the Norwegians have any ABM systems. Maybe they have PAC-3? Maybe they feed systems owned by other NATO countries? I don't know. In my Poland airbase defense scenario, I decided that the Russians would attack the Aegis Ashore site in Poland simultaneously with attacking the airbase because it made the overall attack more effective. I'm not sure that'd necessarily be the case here. If Russia launched a bunch of Iskander missiles at a Norwegian airbase for example, how many aircraft could they get up in the air before they struck? They'd only have a few minutes warning.

For Command, though, it'd be fun to make a scenario of either attacking or defending a Norwegian radar site like that, and beg the question, how might one successfully attack such a site? I don't think that package of Su-24s is enough.



Those are very good points, but if Gunner98 is correct in saying they're in artillery range, I would have thought that option would be a no-brainer - it's not something the Russians are short of, and the targets are fixed and somewhat delicate.



Tailhook -> RE: Norway radar takedown (2/14/2019 7:57:38 AM)

I imagine the location lets them soak up all sorts of juicy intel in peacetime conflict, even if it won't last in a wartime setting.



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