RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (Full Version)

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larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (11/11/2019 10:57:11 PM)

The system seems to have deleted my image. I don't remember what it was about so I've deleted this post entirely.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (11/12/2019 10:24:46 AM)

the system seems to have deleted my embedded JPG image so I've deleted this post. It was about the Finns pushing south into the Leningrad city area and you know how boring that can be.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (11/18/2019 1:46:56 PM)

Here's T30 and the view of the area just east of the Leningrad area. The city is mine so the Finns are attacking south and will be tasked to the push to the NE to attempt to isolate Archangel to cut off some of the Lend Lease if possible. The railhead has finally made it close enough to the front to be useful and once the rail reaches the front itself I'm going to move the RR engineers to repair the rail going east from Minsk. The RR arty that helped take down Leningrad is being railed to the Crimea to help in the takedown of Sevastopol. The first of many Cold Fronts has moved into the theater so I'm expecting the supply levels to drop down to nothing soon. All my movement and attacking will have to stop until about T35 or so when the supply level rises again to about half the value it has now and it's in the teens right now. I've got to start thinking of the Soviet Winter Offensive ( T49 ) and see if I can't develop some local reserves at the very least.

Yeah, I know what you're thinking....those two engineer units racing for the road junction are exposed and vulnerable and I'm not unaware of their risk but that's what it is....a risk. They knew what they were getting into when they signed on as engineers. I use them to repair the bridges but I've also found that I can use them to capture bridges and repair them as needed. They seem like they are all alone but I'm optimistic that I can get some units to join them either this turn or the next. The Soviets have seemingly rushed everybody they had handy up to the front lines and the backfield is sparcely populated by the Soviets. I've been taking risks like this since the beginning of the game and about 70% of them work out just fine.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/75226B04E3FC42468F8A0A17276113A1.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (11/18/2019 2:08:32 PM)

I thought I'd show you what Leningrad looks like now. I'm still trying to do the left hook and I may have managed to trap the Leningrad defenders before they could escape to the east which is pretty kool. The supply level is more than adequate and I'm optimistic about operations up here. I've parked OKH at Leningrad just to rub it in a little.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/7EDD14A33FA347FEA86D44186812D012.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (11/19/2019 4:43:19 AM)

EDIT: I seem to have double posted here. This post has an edit ( second paragraph ).
Here's T30 and the view of the area just east of the Leningrad area. The city is mine so the Finns are attacking south and will be tasked to the push to the NE to attempt to isolate Archangel to cut off some of the Lend Lease if possible. The railhead has finally made it close enough to the front to be useful and once the rail reaches the front itself I'm going to move the RR engineers to repair the rail going east from Minsk. The RR arty that helped take down Leningrad is being railed to the Crimea to help in the takedown of Sevastopol. The first of many Cold Fronts has moved into the theater so I'm expecting the supply levels to drop down to nothing soon. All my movement and attacking will have to stop until about T35 or so when the supply level rises again to about half the value it has now and it's in the teens right now. I've got to start thinking of the Soviet Winter Offensive ( T49 ) and see if I can't develop some local reserves at the very least.

Yeah, I know what you're thinking....those two engineer units racing for the road junction are exposed and vulnerable and I'm not unaware of their risk but that's what it is....a risk. They knew what they were getting into when they signed on as engineers. I use them to repair the bridges but I've also found that I can use them to capture bridges and repair them as needed. They seem like they are all alone but I'm optimistic that I can get some units to join them either this turn or the next. The Soviets have seemingly rushed everybody they had handy up to the front lines and the backfield is sparcely populated by the Soviets. I've been taking risks like this since the beginning of the game and about 70% of them work out just fine.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/578C2F26CB83464F9DF43EE822CF8347.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (11/22/2019 10:40:43 PM)

I've finally cornered all the Soviet defenders from the Leningrad area and am pushing to the NE to join up with the Finns. All the Axis ships are docked at Helsinki and are practically useless now. Maybe for the rest of the game. Supply levels are still more than adequate up here so operations are continuing. As soon as the railhead is flush with the front lines up here I'm going to move the RR engineers to the Minsk rail line.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/667B37B3D365444BBE1D91A6B1488036.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (11/24/2019 4:34:28 PM)

I've finally repaired the rail almost all the way to Sevastopol and it's within the range of my RR arty so they are on their way to this AO. In fact they are just offscreen to the north. The supply situation isn't the best but it's in the teens, high enough to be doable so operations are ongoing. My Stuka squadrons are usually set to Sea Int missions but I've already sunk all the Soviet ships down here so the Stuka's are doing mostly CS and a little bit of INT. It's 05Oct41 already and I have until 05Dec41 to capture Sevastopol if I want to activate the Bulgarian contingent. And I do. I've pushed the Soviets south toward the city and now the fixed arty around the city is in range to support the defenders and the attacks I make are expensive and don't accomplish much. That's why I need the RR arty down here ASAP to make any significant progress. I've been wondering if it's possible to attack the city from the SE somehow. Bypass all the Soviet fortifications north of the city and approach it from maybe a softer underbelly. It's worth a try if it's possible at all.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/54D642CEE42C49FF9CF90AD84FBC551D.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (11/25/2019 8:22:19 AM)

Down south I've gotten across the river and I'm just about to capture Kharkov and when that happens the Soviets will experience a drop in their production of about 5% IIRC. The supply net here is hit and miss at the bleeding edge. Good in some spots and not so good in others. Operations haven't slowed with the Axis southern groups since the beginning of the game and some of the units are showing signs of wear and tear. The Soviets are counterattacking all over the map and they are so serious about it that sometimes one or more of their units will evaporate during the attack. The mud period starts next turn so I expect the supply net to collapse soon. It's T31, early October and the weather has turned cold, a cold front has moved in and pretty soon now the rivers will freeze over. I've got to keep that in mind when I'm re-forming my front lines.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/9D1430D14D3848748BA50C3A0A33AD2E.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (11/25/2019 3:56:09 PM)

Here's the front lines in front of Moscow and you can see that the supply situation is still pretty good so far so I'm keeping up the push in spite of it now being T32, the first turn of the mud season. We're going to have winter-time temperatures in a couple of turns and the rivers and streams will freeze over so I'll have to plan ahead for that to happen. The supply situation is so well developed here that I'm going to move the RR engineers to an area that needs it the most right now. And that area seems to be down south where most of the progress has been going on. The railhead down there is north of Sevastopol and it needs to be close to Kharkov and that's a far stretch to repair. I'm going to need most of the RR engineers to extend the railhead faster. Otherwise, I'll have to call a halt to the advance down there. The image in the mini-map is framed a little too far north but shows the progress in the Leningrad area so I thought I'd leave it as it is instead of this area. This is the start of the turn and I haven't moved anybody yet. About 10% of the aircraft are yellow and resting and the rest of the fleet is green and moved as far forward as they can go. The Soviets have been making airfield strikes but a lot of my airfields have AA units on them so when the Soviets strike they usually lose a LOT more planes than I do. I'll lose less than 10 planes and they will lose close to 50 per strike. Sometimes the IL-4's are involved and I love to see those go down in flames. That's the Soviet bomber with the longest range and unfortunately Berlin is still within range. Although so far there's been no Soviet strikes that far west. The shock level has been lowered to 75% for both sides so I'll have to keep that in mind when I'm assigning units to attacks.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/C2D4AC0D949B4C9BBC7B915064717C8E.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (11/25/2019 8:40:21 PM)

This is a view of the ( T32 ) area SE of Leningrad and you can see how the supply net has collapsed due to the mud and it looks like I need to pull back to an area of better supply. The supply radius is only 2 this turn. The railhead is very close so I may not have to pull back very far. But before I pull up stakes and skedaddle I want to kill those Soviet units that I have surrounded. I'd hate to have to fight them all over again.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/815A637FA0D04F77BAF21E79E2A98486.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (11/29/2019 11:24:38 PM)

The supply net has collapsed and the winter storms have moved into the area so that my MP's are less than 5 for the units and a LOT of the Axis units are in reorg and most of them are overextended in supply so pestilence has set in. Either the supply will have to get a lot better or I'll have to pull all these units back to better supply areas.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/FC2891C7285A43938B15FD60C91B1A2D.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (11/29/2019 11:33:39 PM)

It's the same story about the supply in the Bryansk area as well. As I recall the supply situation does get better when the ground freezes in a turn or two, so I'm going to risk leaving the troops where they are instead of pulling back.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/C100951F4BA24318A5AACDF01F42F4A0.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (11/30/2019 4:09:34 PM)

It's T35 and this is the supply situation SE of Leningrad about 30 hexes. I'm counting on the freezing of the ground to give a little better supply levels. Otherwise I may have to pull back a lot of troops because they are all suffering pestilence and I can't let them do that for very long.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/293113D677824B56805216D033CBE2A6.jpg[/image]



cpt flam -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (12/1/2019 6:08:32 AM)

Mud will run till turn 40 (at least)



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (12/1/2019 5:15:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cpt flam
Mud will run till turn 40 (at least)
That's bad news. I'm not planning on attacking very much since the supply levels won't permit it right now. And movement needs to be curtailed as well. There are sections of the front lines where I CAN move and shoot but it's small and doesn't go very far. Not worth persuing. The Soviet Winter Offensive happens in T49 I think. They get a shock value of 120 and mine gets decreased to 80 for about 30 turns. That's long enough to blow a hole in my lines and pour a lot of troops through it. I'm not looking forward to that time period. I've lost more than one game because of that.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (12/1/2019 6:02:18 PM)

Here's what it looks like down south right now ( T35 ) and you can see how my units are operating in a very low supply situation and I'm going to have to call a halt to the advance here so that the units can keep at least 50% supply to be able to either move or shoot. I hate to call a halt because there's been a lot of progress in this area. If I had the supply to be able to do it I would keep going. My goal for this group in the south is Stalingrad and the sooner I capture it the better. I doubt that I'll be able to capture it this year.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/A4E2A6990D70438DB2CFDDF41A8BCA63.jpg[/image]



Lobster -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (12/1/2019 6:48:27 PM)

Wow Larry your supply has really gone in the crapper.



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (12/3/2019 9:49:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
Wow Larry your supply has really gone in the crapper.
Yes indeed. Here's another look at a different area. It's T37 now and I'm still waiting for the supply situation to get better before I do a bunch of serious attacks. I figure that I can afford to wait several turns. Not that I have much choice.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/743E62A0FF294771B34713EFD5E23A2A.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (4/25/2020 10:54:16 PM)

I did a mod of D21 to give the Axis HQ's some RR engineers so that they could help out repairing the rails. It makes it easier to get the rail to stay almost even with the front lines. And then I restarted. I'm on T6 right now and this is how far I've gotten toward Leningrad. I've got the Panzers out front zooming down those Russian roads. Resistance is light so far. I'd like to grab the bottleneck port so that I can possibly trap all the Soviet units to the west of Narva. The supply levels are adequate for operations to continue so far.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/EAF3317DB1C8454B8B49C8D7B47EB77A.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (4/25/2020 11:59:20 PM)

I'm approaching Orsha where there's no river for the Soviets to hide behind. I'm hoping I can push them aside and keep going east. I'd rather not get into a pi$$ing match over the river crossings. I usually get high losses when I try that. I'm going to try to find spots where I can use the engineers to get across the river and get in behind the Soviet defenders and destroy them.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/25764F4DCEA84247B1AE447BF77DC555.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (4/26/2020 12:03:53 AM)

I just now did a save game event and I'm attaching the file here below just in case you want to go into detail about what's going on all over the map. And maybe try your hand at playing D21 that gives Axis HQ's RR engineers. It's a different experience than the vanilla version.



rhinobones -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (4/26/2020 12:04:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson
I did a mod of D21 to give the Axis HQ's some RR engineers so that they could help out repairing the rails. It makes it easier to get the rail to stay almost even with the front lines.


Larry

Maybe you should consider toning down the automatic “Rail Damage” from 100% to something less destructive, say 70%. I’ve never heard a good answer as to why it was 100% guaranteed that the advancing force would trigger automatic destruction of the rails, but that’s usually what I see in scenarios. Maybe the defenders didn’t have time, maybe the advancing force prevented them or maybe they just didn’t do a good job. Multiple events can be used to model the probability of rail destruction as the scenario evolves. Each side can have independent rail destruction events.

Just a thought.

Regards



larryfulkerson -> RE: The D21 Road Not Taken.... (4/26/2020 12:33:43 AM)

quote:

Larry

Maybe you should consider toning down the automatic “Rail Damage” from 100% to something less destructive, say 70%. I’ve never heard a good answer as to why it was 100% guaranteed that the advancing force would trigger automatic destruction of the rails, but that’s usually what I see in scenarios. Maybe the defenders didn’t have time, maybe the advancing force prevented them or maybe they just didn’t do a good job. Multiple events can be used to model the probability of rail destruction as the scenario evolves. Each side can have independent rail destruction events.

Just a thought.

Regards

Hey, that's a really good idea. I'll look into it and see what I can do about that. I'm wondering what a good figure would be for the setting: 70% damage? I'll try that and see what difference it makes. That means I'll have to restart again and I've only just now gotten to T7.



rhinobones -> R/R Destruction (4/26/2020 1:19:21 AM)

Well, I’m not a big-time player of the East Front scenarios, but if I were, I would make events as follows:

German (Soviets destroying rails as Germans advance)
Barbarossa – 20% chance
As the Soviet defense stiffens – 50%
Winter and beyond – 80%

Soviets (Germans destroying rails as Soviets advance)
Initial value – 70%
After Soviets capture Riga-Minsk-Kyiv (somewhere along that line) 90%

I would build ranges into the events in order to make the scenario more variable. Also, the events would probably be best if they are based on “Hex Occupation” triggers rather than as timed events.

Regards, RhinoBones



larryfulkerson -> RE: R/R Destruction (4/26/2020 1:21:14 AM)

quote:

Well, I’m not a big-time player of the East Front scenarios, but if I were, I would make events as follows:

German (Soviets destroying rails as Germans advance)
Barbarossa – 20% chance
As the Soviet defense stiffens – 50%
Winter and beyond – 80%

Soviets (Germans destroying rails as Soviets advance)
Initial value – 70%
After Soviets capture Riga-Minsk-Kyiv (somewhere along that line) 90%

I would build ranges into the events in order to make the scenario more variable. Also, the events would probably be best if they are based on “Hex Occupation” triggers rather than as timed events.

Regards, RhinoBones

Wow. You've been giving this some thought. It all sounds good. I'll get busy.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: R/R Destruction (4/26/2020 2:43:28 AM)

Hey you dumb asses, the reason it is 100% in scenarios like this is because they had different rail gauges !!



Curtis Lemay -> RE: R/R Destruction (4/26/2020 2:52:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

Hey you dumb asses, the reason it is 100% in scenarios like this is because they had different rail gauges !!

Beat me to it. (Except for the dumb asses thingy. I was going to be much nicer about it).



rhinobones -> RE: R/R Destruction (4/26/2020 2:58:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
Hey you dumb asses, the reason it is 100% in scenarios like this is because they had different rail gauges !!


As mom liked to say, “it takes one to know one”.

Kid, you need to do two things. One, get control of yourself and two, show a little respect for other people’s opinions. I’ve seen you throw little tantrums like this before. Get a life, it’s a game.

I expect to see you post an apology to Larry.

Best Regards, RhinoBones



sPzAbt653 -> RE: R/R Destruction (4/26/2020 3:06:53 AM)

Lightne up, its Saturady night here in virus shutdown mode !! [sm=00000436.gif] No apologies needed, you guys can make any dumb ass changes you feel you need so that you can beat a scenario! Damn the designer all to hell, right?



rhinobones -> RE: R/R Destruction (4/26/2020 3:22:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
... make any dumb ass changes you feel you need so that you can beat a scenario! Damn the designer all to hell, right?


Wrong again.

First you insult people and when they take exception you want them to “lighten” up. To top it off, you hide behind the virus shutdown as a defense for being insolent. Yes, an apology is needed.

Best Regards, RhinoBones



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