Beaufighter Experiences? (Full Version)

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Mistmatz -> Beaufighter Experiences? (3/29/2019 3:46:06 AM)

I'm struggling with the short legs of most of my fighter planes in the middle of '43. Especially in Burma where my opponent has established a strong foothold just out of reach for most of my fighters. I'm hard pressed to gain any momentum without air superiority.

Hence I was thinking to activate my pool of Beaufighter VI's, and maybe even some old Mk I's, for sweeping enemy bases?

Range and armament wise they seem comparable to the P-38's, which I have used with good success in the sweeping capacity. But their lack of maneuverability, combined with the low max speed might be a death sentence fighting against contemporary Japanese fighters. Anybody who has used them in that capacity or can give advise on how to use them in the game?




rockmedic109 -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/29/2019 5:52:30 AM)

I've used them as fighter bombers in Ground Attack. Underwhelming. But I am probably using them wrong. I could try to lower the alt to 100' and go strafing but their target is Jungle and that just seems wrong.



CaptBeefheart -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/29/2019 6:22:48 AM)

They usually do daycap in rear areas or nightcap on the front lines for me. I would think they'd get shredded on sweeps, but who knows until it's tried?

Cheers,
CB



jdsrae -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/29/2019 6:51:13 AM)

Not tried it but I assume it wouldn’t end well against the 1943 model enemy fighters
Perhaps try sweeping with P-38 and send the Beaufighters in same day on a 100ft airfield strike to try and destroy planes on the ground?
Do you know what AA they have at the airbase?
If against a human, don’t try it two days in a row in case they react.
Historically they had success in anti-barge and small ship attacks

This link also has some details of daylight raids on enemy airfields in New Guinea:
http://www.adf-serials.com.au/2a19.htm



warspite1 -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/29/2019 7:09:23 AM)

Ahh the Whispering Death - alongside the Avenger, probably the most beautiful of the Allied aircraft in WWII [sm=00001746.gif]

[image]local://upfiles/28156/1139345082614AEF85DA2A77DD86C0F3.jpg[/image]



Yaab -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/29/2019 7:45:45 AM)

I tested Beaufighters on Gnd Attack at 1000 feet. Due to their 38 durability, they can survive 7.7mm AAMG fire, and never get destroyed by it outright, only damaged. As fighter-bombers they don't get penalties to bombload/morale/fatigue when flaying at 100-1000 feet so you can use them non-stop until they get stand down for maintenance. They would be good for harassing moving LCUs which only have 7.7mm AAMGs for cover. Plus, the Beau pools are shallow, so use them sparingly.



Sardaukar -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/29/2019 8:05:56 AM)

Historically they were really deadly against Japanese barges.



Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/29/2019 12:32:34 PM)

I have used them as escorts,

Allies has plenty of bombers but a deficit in long ranged fighters



GetAssista -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/29/2019 1:42:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mistmatz
But their lack of maneuverability, combined with the low max speed might be a death sentence fighting against contemporary Japanese fighters. Anybody who has used them in that capacity or can give advise on how to use them in the game?

They suck as sweepers in a PBEM, and you named the main reasons. They are pretty good as fighter-bombers but unfortunately there are not that many roles in the game for Allied fighter-bombers. So for me, it is mostly rear CAP and training duties.



spence -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/29/2019 1:59:14 PM)

quote:

They suck as sweepers in a PBEM


+1



Anachro -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/29/2019 2:23:13 PM)

They do not do well in the air; use them for ground attack or, only if you really need to, as long-range escorts.



Big B -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/29/2019 2:30:50 PM)

FWIW:
Beaufighters are not to be thought of as fighters - they are your premier anti-shipping attack aircraft.

If you train your squadrons for Naval Attack altitude 100 feet, and they become proficient to the 65% range in this attack - they will obliterate any ships short of heavy cruisers(though still a horrible danger to them) and battleships.
Even for aircraft carriers they are bad news, destroyers are easy meat for them, and merchant shipping doesn't stand a chance.
The key of use is top cover from good fighters when necessary, and training.

B



Anachro -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/29/2019 3:03:01 PM)

Big B is right, I do use them in strafing naval attack role if opportunity presents itself. Very effective.



oaltinyay -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/29/2019 3:51:17 PM)

Train their crews in Low level bombing and strafind and set them on Naval attack missions at 1000 ft or 100. They will shred any Japanese convoy. Any target below a CA is fair game for them. They need to be escorted if there is a some CAP. But use them sparingly since you wont get a lot of them.

For your situation, ( and I maybe in the same spot with you there ) , here is what I did...

1. Magwe is a nice location. Place a decent support unit and fly in P38s or P40Ks and keep it supplied. They may not get a lot of kills but they will disrupt those Lily's.

2. Build Chittagong to level 6 higher...
3. Base any and every 2E+ LB to that base and start bombing. Your 4E engines such as Wellington and Lib can hit as far as Rangoon and any Japanese LCU caught in the open will be bombed to 0+.
3. Keep changing the "target of the day" randomly to keep him off balance.
4. If you know where his main AF is, then you can work on that if you have around 40 4Es and fly over 10K, you will take losses but there is no way Japanese airframes can keep a high level of ops.




HansBolter -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/29/2019 7:11:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

Big B is right, I do use them in strafing naval attack role if opportunity presents itself. Very effective.



By '45 you can get the crews high enough in experience to turn them into night strafers.

Of course by late '45 all that's left to strafe are MTBs and SCs. [:D]



JeffroK -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/29/2019 9:39:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Ahh the Whispering Death - alongside the Avenger, probably the most beautiful of the Allied aircraft in WWII [sm=00001746.gif]

[image]local://upfiles/28156/1139345082614AEF85DA2A77DD86C0F3.jpg[/image]

Nooooo, not beautiful, but a very effective fighter bomber, even efficient as a defending fighter against poorly escorted bombers.

Beautiful is the Westland Whirlwind.



JeffroK -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/29/2019 9:49:44 PM)

Now thats pretty.

https://www.aviartnutkins.com/pencil/PC4_The_Westland_Whirlwind.php

[image]local://upfiles/15295/602889E71D45469883CB5DDC24239CA9.jpg[/image]



apbarog -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/29/2019 11:29:06 PM)

In the morning:

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Ic x 13

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufighter Ic: 1 damaged
Beaufighter Ic: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
APD Numakaze, Bomb hits 1, on fire
APD Nokaze, Bomb hits 7, and is sunk
DD Maikaze, Shell hits 4

Japanese ground losses:
487 casualties reported
Squads: 11 destroyed, 44 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 22 (8 destroyed, 14 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Beaufighter Ic bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb

and in the afternoon

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Ic x 11

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
DD Nowaki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Naka, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Maikaze, Shell hits 5, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Japanese ground losses:
308 casualties reported
Squads: 14 destroyed, 13 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 7 (2 destroyed, 5 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x Beaufighter Ic bombing from 100 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 lb SAP Bomb

I've learned to love the Beaufighters. Especially in a PDU OFF game.



bradfordkay -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/30/2019 1:33:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffroK


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Ahh the Whispering Death - alongside the Avenger, probably the most beautiful of the Allied aircraft in WWII [sm=00001746.gif]

[image]local://upfiles/28156/1139345082614AEF85DA2A77DD86C0F3.jpg[/image]

Nooooo, not beautiful, but a very effective fighter bomber, even efficient as a defending fighter against poorly escorted bombers.

Beautiful is the Westland Whirlwind.


In an AI game I have an RAAF squadron of Beaufighter 1C aircraft that has 67 kills, mostly Betties but quite a few A6M2 Zeros as well. Nine of their Beaufighters have gone down in the defense of northern Australia, but only 1 pilot has been killed with three wounded. I believe that it helps that the Zeroes were at the end of their range.



JeffroK -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/30/2019 1:43:31 AM)

I wasnt going to mention it, its only against the AI, but my Beaus' defend Darwin and I have 3 aces with 30+ kills, mostly bombers.



spence -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/30/2019 2:08:30 AM)

quote:

I wasnt going to mention it, its only against the AI, but my Beaus' defend Darwin and I have 3 aces with 30+ kills, mostly bombers.


In my PBEM my Beaufighters haven't done very well at all against Japanese fighters and so far he hasn't done much bombing of N. Australia. My Beaufighters have done a bit better when they had the altitude advantage (against fighters). But why would they do any worse when they're AI controlled than not?(unescorted bombers)?



JeffroK -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/30/2019 2:59:48 AM)

Basically, the Beau is a heavily armed 2E Fighter bomber, its not in the same class as a P38 let alone a current model SEF. Its maneuverable as any 2E light bomber such as the A20.

Try and play it like a P40-Hurri-F4F-4 and it will get trashed.

Play it like an attack bomber, at low level and in a low threat environment and it will shine.

But, in mid 42 it can be one of the few fighters available in Australia, lots of bases to defend so it get misused. If it gets to attack an unescorted raid it can make a real mess therefore the IJN player has to be a little careful.



Technopiper -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/30/2019 3:15:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spence
In my PBEM my Beaufighters haven't done very well at all against Japanese fighters and so far he hasn't done much bombing of N. Australia. My Beaufighters have done a bit better when they had the altitude advantage (against fighters). But why would they do any worse when they're AI controlled than not?(unescorted bombers)?

A guess. Perhaps the AI often neglects training?



jdsrae -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/30/2019 3:54:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

I wasnt going to mention it, its only against the AI, but my Beaus' defend Darwin and I have 3 aces with 30+ kills, mostly bombers.


In my PBEM my Beaufighters haven't done very well at all against Japanese fighters and so far he hasn't done much bombing of N. Australia. My Beaufighters have done a bit better when they had the altitude advantage (against fighters). But why would they do any worse when they're AI controlled than not?(unescorted bombers)?


AI sends many unescorted bombing raids. Beaus can chew them up.
Human opponent may have seen you have Beaus so may be trying to sweep them from the skies first before sending too many bombers.



bradfordkay -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/30/2019 7:20:30 AM)

The AI rarely sweeps northern Oz, though it has often swept SE Indian airbases. the RAF squadron of Beaufighter VIc aircraft I have in that area has not done anywhere nearly as well (17 kills vs 9 losses), but the Beau does seem to be tough to kill. That is something it has going for it. I should mention that this game is only in March of '43 so it hasn't seen too many of the next generation of Japanese fighters yet.

In my last PBEM, which ended in mid April of '45 the Beaufighters did not have nearly the same rate of success. The two remaining Aussie squadrons show the following results: 8 kills vs 9 losses for one and 9 kills vs 11 losses for the other). The squadron remaining in Burma shows 3 kills for 27 losses.



Technopiper -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/30/2019 8:08:09 AM)

How does the Beaufighter fare as a torpedo bomber?



BBfanboy -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/30/2019 1:33:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Technopiper

How does the Beaufighter fare as a torpedo bomber?

As with strafing/bombing attacks, the Beaufighter is a very good TB ... IF you have the necessary fighter cover and the pilots have been trained over 60 skill in NavT.

EDIT: It doesn't have a great range carrying a torp, so it is best for coastal defence or where there is a cluster of islands being contested. I'm not sure, but it might be able to operate with a torp from a level 3 AF.



GetAssista -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/30/2019 2:04:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Technopiper
How does the Beaufighter fare as a torpedo bomber?

First one, Beaufighter TFX, arrives in Aug-43 in Stock 1 scenario. By that date there is hardly any need for Allied TB LBA because Allies are permanently on the offensive, so they need sweeps, longer range level bombing/escorts and CV air.



BBfanboy -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/30/2019 2:12:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: Technopiper
How does the Beaufighter fare as a torpedo bomber?

First one, Beaufighter TFX, arrives in Aug-43 in Stock 1 scenario. By that date there is hardly any need for Allied TB LBA because Allies are permanently on the offensive, so they need sweeps, longer range level bombing/escorts and CV air.

I think if an offensive was started in the DEI in 1943-44 the Japanese would be forced to bring in reinforcements and evacuate/redeploy troops from numerous places. A TB would be useful where the shipping had to be close to Allied bases.



Mistmatz -> RE: Beaufighter Experiences? (3/30/2019 5:13:28 PM)

Thank you all for your advise and commentary. It's great to see this forum alive and kicking after so many years.

My opponent plays very smart and has secured a very defensible perimeter in Northern Australia and controls almost all of Burma. In both cases I have incredible problems bringing supply forward to do anything meaningful with my ground troops. Hence I was thinking about sweeping and bombing campaigns against his forward bases, but I just don't have enough long range fighters at them moment and I'm hesitant to take the OP losses on extended range (which in many cases is still not enough anyway...).

I will bide my time with the Beaufighters and maybe intesify my low level ground/naval attack training for future use.



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