Alamo B and D Missiles Not Tracking (Full Version)

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ZoroastroBR -> Alamo B and D Missiles Not Tracking (4/2/2019 12:25:35 PM)

Hey, so I was trying to use Soviet/Russian long range IRAA missiles, but they don't seem to not be working well. They travel in a strait line and don't track targets unless if they are really close to them. In this scenario you can see it happening for some of the missiles.

They are launched on an intercept course, but if the target takes any evasive maneuver the missile will keep flying in a strait line.

Is that their expected behavior?



Zathred -> RE: Alamo B and D Missiles Not Tracking (4/2/2019 2:19:44 PM)

Did you check the missile sensor range in the DB viewer?

This article on the R27-ET (Alamo-D) says it flies in a straight line until achieving a lock and thus can be evaded

Seems sensible as IR sources are probably weaker and more easily lost in background clutter than radar returns

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-27_(air-to-air_missile)



Filitch -> RE: Alamo B and D Missiles Not Tracking (4/2/2019 3:20:43 PM)

Wiki article contains an error. R-27ET equipped with 36T or 9B-1023 IR-seeker. 9B-1032 (PRGS-27) mentioned in the article is a passive radiation seeker.
About R-27ET's seeker characteristics. According Su-27 flight manual R-27ET locks target before launch. Some sources claims the lock distance as about 15 kilometers in forward hemisphere and 40 kilometers in rear. Of course, special targets like SR-71 or another craft with glowing engines at afterburner can be locked at the bigger distances.



Zathred -> RE: Alamo B and D Missiles Not Tracking (4/2/2019 3:57:22 PM)

The figures in the DB are:

Alamo-B (R27-T): range 2-45nm, seeker range 10nm
Alamo-D (R27-ET): range 2-70nm, seeker range 10nm

In your scenario the first Alamo-B shot is taken at over 40nm from the target and out of direct seeker range.

I see hits on the B-52 and A-10s by the Alamos and also misses due to both flare decoys released by the aircraft and low probability of hits from bad aspect/energy.

Are you patched to the latest update (1009.27.6)?



Zathred -> RE: Alamo B and D Missiles Not Tracking (4/2/2019 4:31:36 PM)

You have "Ignore plotted course when attacking" set to no, set yes to get the a/c to fly an optimum intercept course

The a/c are using max range beam-on crossing shots causing a lack of energy at endgame, reduced launch range with WRA (20nm) and tail aspect shots give better results as expected.

*** It does look like the Alamos are being fired at empty space on several occasions which is a possible bug reported elsewhere



Filitch -> RE: Alamo B and D Missiles Not Tracking (4/2/2019 7:45:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zathred

The figures in the DB are:

Alamo-B (R27-T): range 2-45nm, seeker range 10nm
Alamo-D (R27-ET): range 2-70nm, seeker range 10nm

Both missiles are inertially guided with mid-course correction over a data-link from the launch aircraft to within seeker range so the IR sensor does not guide the missile until it's within 10nm


This does not matches real world. R-27ET has no mid-course correction over data-link. Seeker range is longer than 10 nm.



Zathred -> RE: Alamo B and D Missiles Not Tracking (4/2/2019 8:13:17 PM)

This is the current CMANO database entries for these missiles.

Manufacturers claims concerning range,accuracy and kill probability also tend to be "highly optimistic". A bit of research on the actual missile kill statistics for real-life engagements across all domains (AA, SAM) give much lower figures, the AIM-120 AMRAAM being a good example.

If you think the information is incorrect and can provide a reference then add an entry to the database update thread at http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3436106 to get this modified.

IR seeker reference: http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-IR-Guidance.html



Filitch -> RE: Alamo B and D Missiles Not Tracking (4/3/2019 7:46:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zathred
This is the current CMANO database entries for these missiles.

Sure, I understand that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zathred
Manufacturers claims concerning range,accuracy and kill probability also tend to be "highly optimistic".

Range and launch distance are different concepts. Manufacturer claims range as a length of the missile's trajectory. Launch distance, in case of R-27 with IR-seeker, is a distance at which seeker acquires, locks-on a target.


Thanks for advise about thread for DB updates.



Dimitris -> RE: Alamo B and D Missiles Not Tracking (4/21/2019 1:38:42 PM)

....so is there a potential bug in this?



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