RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (Full Version)

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Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (9/30/2019 5:27:40 PM)

No combat, thank you.



Orm -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (9/30/2019 5:34:22 PM)

Sep/Oct '40
Impulse #2 (Axis)

No strategic bombing. No Ground Strikes.

Now there is a break while I wait for the German railmoves (if any).



Orm -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/1/2019 8:14:30 PM)

Sep/Oct '40
Impulse #2 (Axis)

Rail moves:

Germany:
MIL (Paris) -> La Spezia
MIL (Düsseldorf) -> La Spezia
PARA Div (Munich) -> Reggio

Japan:
HQI (Canton) -> 74,134
HQI (75,134) -> 76,140


Land Moves:

Japan:
INF (Haichow) -> 76,146
INF (Shanghai) -> Nanning
Warlord (Shanghai) -> 81,146
GARR (84,134) -> Changsha
INF (77,137) -> 77,138
INF (76,135) -> 77,137
ART (Sian) -> 76,138
MIL (93,138) -> 92,137 - via Pakhoi
TERR (84,139) -> 82,140
MIL (84,138) -> 84,139
GARR (76,140) -> 76,141
INF (Kweilin) -> 89,137
AA (85,139) -> 86,140
MTN (Canton) -> 93,138
MAR (88,139) -> 88,138
MIL (90,138) -> Nanning (US Entry roll: 4)
MIL (74,135) -> Yenan (US Entry roll: 4)
MOT Div (84,139) -> 81,141 - via Ichang (US Entry roll: 1 - US entry marker added)
HQI (86,140) -> 88,140

Over to Germany for the second part of the impulse.



peskpesk -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/2/2019 4:40:52 AM)

German Land movement

Many German troops are heading east, back home ( might the war will be over soon?)
German troops reach the Greece border
German forces in North Italy are slowly relocated
Few German troops head west to the atlantic wall



[image]local://upfiles/9545/149BEDAB8F4D4070A297C52E48B67FE1.jpg[/image]



peskpesk -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/2/2019 4:44:21 AM)

Land Combat

Germany attack the Belgian Pocket.

[image]local://upfiles/9545/C3D4951FE80942F4AC5C5313D74DFDFC.jpg[/image]

65 vs 7 = 16,6 (+24,1B)

Will Allies use any Def Shore Bombardment (6 points) ?

No Attacking HQ Support

NO Attacking Ground Support

Will Allied send any Defensive Groud Support? (Lnd3 (3 points), ATR3 (2 points) interceptors FTR2(6 strength) +CVP (3 strength))

Without Defensive Ground suppport +8(+16B) if Max Def Shore Bombardment.

Axis has FTR2(4 strength)+FTR3(3 strength) to counter intercept with



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/2/2019 6:38:14 AM)

CW use full shore bombardment.

CW sends both bombers, Hampden in front.

If intercepted, FTR2 joins the combat.

All planes land same hex they take off.



peskpesk -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/2/2019 3:25:05 PM)

Land Combat Result


The Germany attack the Belgian Pocket is a success, CW are thrown out of the mainland.

[image]local://upfiles/9545/D0B82B32A6BD41419FD95C38BDC0EAC7.jpg[/image]



peskpesk -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/2/2019 3:47:58 PM)

Air rebase:

Germany:
ATR (58,32) -> Salerno
Lnd2 (54,32) -> 64,37
Lnd2 (54,31) -> Leghorn
Ftr3 (55,30) -> 67,38

Japan:
LND2 (76,135) -> 74,143
LND2(D3A2) (Sian) -> 76,140

Italy:
FTR2 (82,54) -> 83,42

Reorganization:

Italy:
HQI (69,45) reorganize 3 ships in Tirana (2 x TRS + CA)



peskpesk -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/2/2019 3:57:13 PM)

Sep/Oct 1940 Allied 3#

The Weather is fine.

[image]local://upfiles/9545/58C4FEB55BFB41448B99DC41C99D8878.jpg[/image]



peskpesk -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/2/2019 7:26:40 PM)

Sep/Oct 1940 Allied 3#

Italy


[image]local://upfiles/9545/8A99816A96184B7C884735151A8C1F4D.jpg[/image]



peskpesk -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/2/2019 7:29:22 PM)

Sep/Oct 1940 Allied 3#

Occupied France/England

[image]local://upfiles/9545/74A8D15E79E14978ADDBBD71516CEFF2.jpg[/image]



peskpesk -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/2/2019 7:30:49 PM)

Sep/Oct 1940 Allied 3#

Near East

[image]local://upfiles/9545/74995B3EAE1A4084BE17F3F86CBA8773.jpg[/image]



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/2/2019 7:33:03 PM)

Report from China.

Japanese have managed to get supply to some of their troops in north with 2 HQ rails.

Attack against Lanchow is on hold, but it will take only impulse or two when all Japanese troops are in supply again.

[image]local://upfiles/39586/337D321A883343A29F354A0B4CF2BCDF.jpg[/image]



peskpesk -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/2/2019 7:33:39 PM)

Nice JP double HQ rail move. But that costs oil!
The Japanese Supreme HQ can't be happy with the lost impulses until the troops are back in action.



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/2/2019 7:46:49 PM)

How is Umezu (yellow circle) in supply if Chinese CAV moves NW?



[image]local://upfiles/39586/65854BE15FC94F269519CE436802218E.jpg[/image]



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/2/2019 7:48:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

Nice JP double HQ rail move. But that costs oil!
The Japanese Supreme HQ can't be happy with the lost impulses until the troops are back in action.


Nice move. I can tell that I hoped A LOT that we get rain [:)]



Orm -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/3/2019 7:11:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mayhemizer_slith

How is Umezu (yellow circle) in supply if Chinese CAV moves NW?


I have no idea why it is in supply. In fact, it looks as OOS to me. I thought it was just the "refresh supply bug" but it seems like a more annoying kind of bug to me. If I understand the supply form, see pic, then there MWIF treats the HQ as OOS, but it is possible that I read that form wrong.

Anyway, unless someone can give a compelling argument why the HQI should be in supply I suggest that we treat it as a bug and the HQ is OOS, and continue as is. Just need to remember that a few aircraft can only fly rebase missions, and land units should be debugged as disorganized after they have moved. So unless China plans to attack any disorganized unit OOS then I foresee no real trouble by this bug.

Thoughts?

Edit: Land attacks can be worked around by modifying the die roll accordingly. So then I do not foresee anything that can not be worked around.


[image]local://upfiles/29130/B266EF185E4A4F3BA63EB3B91A0F029D.jpg[/image]



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/3/2019 8:36:17 AM)

Not possible to attack. And I think you can get that HQ in supply by moving other units if Chinese move like that.

Just wanted to make sure that Umezu should be OOS and I understood rules right.

Edit: Chinese could attack 8-3 INF, but it would be suicide as it’s elite unit.




brian brian -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/3/2019 2:45:44 PM)

Can’t that HQ trace to the rail hex southwest of Taiyuan?



Orm -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/3/2019 3:09:11 PM)

Yes, it can. But that is 4 hexes away, and since Japan have no primary supply sources on the mainland the railway supply needs a sea link over to Japan. And the sea link requires one extra hex, for the port, when it reach Japan. Hence it is one hex to many for it to use that route. In my humble opinion, that is.



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/3/2019 3:30:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Yes, it can. But that is 4 hexes away, and since Japan have no primary supply sources on the mainland the railway supply needs a sea link over to Japan. And the sea link requires one extra hex, for the port, when it reach Japan. Hence it is one hex to many for it to use that route. In my humble opinion, that is.

I counted the same way as Orm. If 4 hexes is enough, how did they went OOS first place at all?



rkr1958 -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/4/2019 2:05:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mayhemizer_slith


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Yes, it can. But that is 4 hexes away, and since Japan have no primary supply sources on the mainland the railway supply needs a sea link over to Japan. And the sea link requires one extra hex, for the port, when it reach Japan. Hence it is one hex to many for it to use that route. In my humble opinion, that is.

I counted the same way as Orm. If 4 hexes is enough, how did they went OOS first place at all?
Maybe I'm not understanding it but can't Umezu trace supply 4-hexes to the rail hex southwest of Taiyuan, then by rail to Terauch who then can trace back to Japan?



composer99 -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/4/2019 5:34:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mayhemizer_slith


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Yes, it can. But that is 4 hexes away, and since Japan have no primary supply sources on the mainland the railway supply needs a sea link over to Japan. And the sea link requires one extra hex, for the port, when it reach Japan. Hence it is one hex to many for it to use that route. In my humble opinion, that is.

I counted the same way as Orm. If 4 hexes is enough, how did they went OOS first place at all?
Maybe I'm not understanding it but can't Umezu trace supply 4-hexes to the rail hex southwest of Taiyuan, then by rail to Terauch who then can trace back to Japan?



You're correct.



Orm -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/4/2019 6:24:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99


quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mayhemizer_slith


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Yes, it can. But that is 4 hexes away, and since Japan have no primary supply sources on the mainland the railway supply needs a sea link over to Japan. And the sea link requires one extra hex, for the port, when it reach Japan. Hence it is one hex to many for it to use that route. In my humble opinion, that is.

I counted the same way as Orm. If 4 hexes is enough, how did they went OOS first place at all?
Maybe I'm not understanding it but can't Umezu trace supply 4-hexes to the rail hex southwest of Taiyuan, then by rail to Terauch who then can trace back to Japan?



You're correct.

No offence intended. However, you seem to forget that you may only use railway supply between a secondary supply source and a primary supply source, and Terauchi is a secondary supply source. Hence, a railway path may not be used to reach Terauchi, and the HQI is not within 4 unZOCed hexes of Umezu.

Edit: In short: The supply path between Terauchi and Umezu is a basic supply path (max 4 hexes).



brian brian -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/4/2019 4:13:22 PM)

I think the basic paths are from the units to the Umezu HQ. Umezu then traces a railway path to the Terauchi HQ. Terauchi then traces a railway path to Japan. Railway paths can also include four hexes, covering the distance from Umezu to rail hex and the +1 for a port requirement from Terauchi to Japan. Umezu could also trace rail supply to Manchuria or Korea’s capitals I would think.

Umezu can function as a secondary source and use a railway path to reach Terauchi, whereas a regular unit in the same hex, without Umezu in that hex, could not.


Or, it could be as Courtney’s brilliant .sig says: “I thought I knew how to play this game” ???



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/4/2019 4:49:30 PM)

It’s quite comforting to hear that others have difficulties with this one too.

I know that I know about 98% of the rules [;)]

Most of my problems are related to supply, invasion or Vichy. When I plan something I don’t know for sure I play impulse and see how it goes.



rkr1958 -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/4/2019 6:29:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mayhemizer_slith


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Yes, it can. But that is 4 hexes away, and since Japan have no primary supply sources on the mainland the railway supply needs a sea link over to Japan. And the sea link requires one extra hex, for the port, when it reach Japan. Hence it is one hex to many for it to use that route. In my humble opinion, that is.

I counted the same way as Orm. If 4 hexes is enough, how did they went OOS first place at all?
Maybe I'm not understanding it but can't Umezu trace supply 4-hexes to the rail hex southwest of Taiyuan, then by rail to Terauch who then can trace back to Japan?



quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I think the basic paths are from the units to the Umezu HQ. Umezu then traces a railway path to the Terauchi HQ. Terauchi then traces a railway path to Japan. Railway paths can also include four hexes, covering the distance from Umezu to rail hex and the +1 for a port requirement from Terauchi to Japan. Umezu could also trace rail supply to Manchuria or Korea’s capitals I would think.

Umezu can function as a secondary source and use a railway path to reach Terauchi, whereas a regular unit in the same hex, without Umezu in that hex, could not.


Or, it could be as Courtney’s brilliant .sig says: “I thought I knew how to play this game” ???
Brian, I'm honestly confused ... but I think you agreed with my reasoning above and that's why the Japanese are in supply? So I was correct in my reasoning?



TeaLeaf -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/4/2019 7:54:33 PM)

Orm is right, trust the guy [;)].

Railway supply paths can only be used from secondary to primary supply source.
Umezu -> Terauchi is secondary to secondary, so railway supply paths cannot be used there. Umezu may ofc trace along the railways, but all hexes must be counted then ;-).

Now if only Terauchi had a supply unit stacked on him, he could be counted as a primary...

From the rulebook:
quote:

If you are tracing a path from a secondary supply source to a primary supply source, it is a railway supply path.
If you are tracing any other supply path, it is a basic supply path.

And basic supply paths count every hex, even those along railways.
The example on page 5 of the (RAW7) rulebook perfectly illustrates this.



peskpesk -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/4/2019 8:21:34 PM)

Example from (RAW7) rulebook

[image]local://upfiles/9545/C52C7136EB7F4998AB9D1896EA1C916A.jpg[/image]



brian brian -> RE: Rematch 4 player game (Orm, Peskpesk, jjdenver and Mayhemizer) (10/4/2019 8:22:05 PM)

Ahh yes, the ‘secondary to secondary’ distinction gets me every time.



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